Married DC Shalom Bayis

amother

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 9:19 pm

fmt4 wrote:

I'm very confused. In your OP the issue seems to be their relationship - she is focused on the kids and doesn't have time for him. Honestly, this reminds me of a lot of insecure, immature, selfish husbands who don't help their wives at all and then get jealous when their wives don't have time for them because they have so much on their plates.
Then this morphed into something quite different - her children are in danger and he needs to save them? She doesn't take care of herself? Unkempt? Doesn't leave bed?

Something is off here.

What happened is that initially I wanted to share as little information as possible, but I gradually realized that w/o more detail peoples' advice would be meaningless. Sorry.

amother

Clematis

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 9:43 pm

amother OP wrote:

Probably more than a little. One of the older kids told me a story this week about how to surprise her mother, she dressed her two little brothers for camp. Instead of saying how wonderful she was, her mother got mad and told her she had planned for one of them to wear those pants on Tuesday, not Monday (which it was).

Op, what you are doing isn’t cool. You are ganging up on your daughter and talking to her kids behind her back. If I was your daughter I would be so hurt. This isn’t helping her but hurting her more. If you want to help them this isn’t how to go about it. They need a third party to help. You can offer meals, funding and support but this involvement isn’t ok.

amother

Clematis

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 9:44 pm

amother OP wrote:

This is exactly what I think. I do not say things that could be "weaponized." (Sil is a sweet sweet guy but couples sometimes say awful things in the heat of an argument.) I am someone he can go to to talk and the older kids also know that they can come to me to talk.

My sisters seem to think I can wave a magic wand and fix this but sometimes all you can do is daven and support.

Why are you talking to your sisters about this? Really not ok at all.

amother

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:09 pm

amother Clematis wrote:

What do you suggest I do when a kid calls me because they are hurting? Hang up on them? Give them a lecture on their mother's civil rights? These are children in pain.

amother

Stoneblue

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:09 pm

OP, I don't know why you're getting bashed for trying to help. If your daughter is not opening up to you, it won't matter at all if you're on her good side. What matters is trying to keep the family together, and sil who is struggling with day to day living will very likely be unable to find the time and mental capacity to seek mentors and therapists.
My husband had a serious addiction problem, and after trying for many years to cover up for him and get him help on my own, I felt so alone and helpless. I was emotionally and financially drained from the ordeal, and from having to put up a normal front to everyone. I went to my in-laws for help- after all, they are his parents. Though it took them time to believe me, they did help somewhat and they connected me with their Rav- who was a lot more knowledgeable than our Rav- which eventually led us to our current therapist/ psychiatrist.
I have a similar story as yours with my sister. She was a great student, but is a miserable wife and mother. She gets very easily overwhelmed, snaps at her kids and husband, and can't even get basic tasks done without assistance. Yes, my parents help her all day and night. They should leave her husband to drown? He is the best thing that ever happened to her and her kids, though she is probably the only one that doesn't realize it.
Why does everyone act like they really never heard of a woman who can't function, who is neglectful and/or abusive, and who needs more help than an overwhelmed spouse can provide?

No real ideas OP, just wishing you luck. Though, as a health professional who worked in psych, it sounds like she would definitely benefit from medication for anxiety/ depression based on your information. The hard part is getting her to agree.

amother

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:21 pm

amother Stoneblue wrote:

Thank you so much. Really.

amother

Silver

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:31 pm

I'm laughing at all these responses. Typical imamother. Really if you can't relate you shouldn't play internet psychologist.

As I said upthread, I have a sister like this. Everyone can see a mile off how much she's NOT managing. There is nothing we can do about it. I know my parents over the years offered to pay for therapy, couples therapy, whatever. There's not much to do. My mother has so much agmas nefesh from it. 100% the kids suffer and so does her husband.

Literally it's so painful to see that I try not to spend time with them, but then I feel bad that at least her kids should see a healthy normal home (with my own issues of course) and be able to confide in me when they get older.

I'm the sibling she talks to the most and I still can't get it through her head that she needs help.

Good luck op. You're not the villain here.

amother

Alyssum

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:48 pm

Cheiny wrote:

No one said the wife is perfect. No one here knows what’s really going on with that situation.

But one thing is clear, or should be. A mother’s first priority is her own child, not her in law child. The focus should be on doing whatever is necessary to help the daughter, not based on or necessarily believing everything the sil is saying.

The grandchildren have to be the priority, they are the most vulnerable.

amother

Zinnia

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:54 pm

amother OP wrote:

What do you suggest I do when a kid calls me because they are hurting? Hang up on them? Give them a lecture on their mother's civil rights? These are children in pain.

Listen, sympathize and then tell them their mother loves them and they should try to do things her way as much as possible. She is their mother after all, and her telling them she wanted the pants for a different day is not abuse. You also weren't there and don't know her side of the story. Stop building a court case against your daughter.

amother

Alyssum

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 11:05 pm

amother OP wrote:

What do you suggest I do when a kid calls me because they are hurting? Hang up on them? Give them a lecture on their mother's civil rights? These are children in pain.

They need their pain validated, they need to understand what normal is, and they need a safe person in their life to turn to. OP, based on your description, it sounds like you are doing the right thing with them.

amother

Clematis

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 11:05 pm

amother Zinnia wrote:

This.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 11:10 pm

amother OP wrote:

What happened is that initially I wanted to share as little information as possible, but I gradually realized that w/o more detail peoples' advice would be meaningless. Sorry.

You really need professional advice outside the scope of imamother or social media. There you can feel comfortable sharing all pertinent details.

You wrote money was an issue for you. Apply to organizations that can help. Do a Google search. Or ask your Shules Rebbetzen. or local Askan.

It's totally not clear from your posts what's going on. I understand your reluctance to share information but without it, none of this is useful and we are all spinning our wheels.

You say you have worked with homeless, perhaps you have social services resources there that can advise you.

amother

Khaki

Tue, Sep 12 2023, 1:54 am

And DD doesnt have a single person in the entire world who she would listen to?

A Rov or Rebbitzen she respects?

A Gadol or Rosh Yeshiva who would invest some time with this?

And this didnt happen overnight. Why did SIL continue having more kids if he felt unhappy?

I assume its not all twins and triplets. Having 7 kids takes time.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Sep 12 2023, 8:07 am

amother Zinnia wrote:

So that they can come on imamother in 20 years crying about why the adults in their life did nothing to help them ?

There’s an interesting phenomenon on imamother in which some posters gang up on the op and doubt her story and continuously twist her words and rip apart her so she spends most of the time explaining and defending herself . Then , since she sounds defensive everyone rips her apart more.

Now, it’s possible that op is a lying psychopath and is making everything up and her daughter is really an angelic wife and the sil is abusive and op is an accomplice to his abuse . But there is LITERALLY nothing she wrote to make us think that . So just respond accordingly based on the op and assume she is telling the truth . Otherwise what is the point of responding ???

B'Syata D'Shmya

Tue, Sep 12 2023, 8:17 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Noone is ignoring the OPs version. Just the way to interpret it.
If we were to tell her to bring DC to a psych ER or psychiatric intervention would you be happy?
As the OP wrote she is withholding information. So this is all conjecture and academic. Just pple sharing ideas and opinions.
We are not responsible for what OP does.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Sep 12 2023, 8:27 am

B'Siyata DiShamaya wrote:

There’s nothing to interpret. Op says that her daughter refuses all help and is neglectful and that she just wants to help .
The responses:
stop ganging up on your daughter
Probably your sil is abusive
Just offer her help (op wrote many times that she’s offered help and daughter refuses.)
Why are you talking about this with your sister ?
Criticizing kids is not so bad
Which mother believes her sil over her own daughter ?

None of these responses are assuming that op is telling the truth. They are assuming that she’s exaggerating or lying .