Married DC Shalom Bayis

amother

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:28 am

amother Lightpink wrote:

SIL can go for therapy by himself. He doesn’t have to wait for dd to get on board.

He does.

I would talk with your dd and say I’m concerned because you seem very stressed. What can I do to help?

Been there done that. She just shuts me down and then doesn't communicate with me for days.

Can you go over there regularly and help with the kids and the cleaning? ETA I know dd has refused help in the past, but can you go anyway? As long as sil and the eineklach want you there.

She would freak out if I invaded her home in that way.

Would money help your dd feel less stressed? Could somebody help cover cleaning ladies or takeout for a while to take some of the load off her?

I am not sure. Maybe but not for sure. Unfortunately I don't have any extra. On rare occasions that I do, and offer it to her she usually says no.

I feel terrible for everyone in this situation. IyH Hashem will turn the situation around and give you a yeshua.

ChassidishMommy

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:35 am

amother OP wrote:

I hope she knows I feel that way but like a lot of mothers I probably don't say it enough. Thank you.

Then convey this to her!
"You know, I regret not telling my kids enough that I love them the way they are. It's so important for kids to know that they don't need to do anything to deserve to be loved or to love themselves."

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:39 am

amother OP wrote:

Reminds me of the politicians who say we have to allow homeless people to run into traffic or sleep in the streets in the cold bc it is their civil liberty to do so.
This is a family in immense crisis and a terrified young man trying to save his home and his children. I don't really care if dd is mad. When she is ok we will have it out and she will understand.

What do you know about homeless people? Because I know quite a lot. Please dont use them as an example unless you have worked with them, understand why they do what they do, and have tried to actually help them.. Have you invited one into your home?
I cant expound for professional reasons but you really dont know what you are talking about.

Regarding your daughter. What do you mean by a family in immense crisis?
What is SIL's plan? To take the children away from her?
Is she disheveled, unkempt, not taking care of your grandchildrens needs- physical and emotional?
Has she lost a large amount of weight? Has trouble sleeping? Spends a lot of daytime in bed?

A lot of the "symptoms" you mentioned can be explained normally. I dont know, you seem to have decided that she is in immense crisis and whatever you are planning on doing, she will understand.

Please get good professional advice before you do something you might regret. Take a deep breath and think this through.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:48 am

amother OP wrote:

This is exactly what I think. I do not say things that could be "weaponized." (Sil is a sweet sweet guy but couples sometimes say awful things in the heat of an argument.) I am someone he can go to to talk and the older kids also know that they can come to me to talk.

My sisters seem to think I can wave a magic wand and fix this but sometimes all you can do is daven and support.

To me it sounds a bit creepy that your SIL comes to you to complain about your daughter. You have described him glowingly, and your daughter less so.
Is that how you feel about them?

It is possible that since your dd doesnt come to confide in you and talk to you (DMCs) and give you the feeling of being the one with the magic wand who can fix all problems, that you are now judging her through the prism of the complaints.

Just giving a different perspective. Something to think about.

amother

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:52 am

B'Siyata DiShamaya wrote:

I am sorry my analogy touched such a raw nerve for you and it being right before rh want to apologize for upsetting you. But as it happens, I worked with the homeless extensively for many years.

And yes to most of your questions re DD.

There is a tendency on imamother for people to assume they understand more than the person with the problem, and then set themselves up as savior of people who they can't possibly know all the details about. I am sure you and others upthread mean well. But.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:54 am

amother OP wrote:

Probably more than a little. One of the older kids told me a story this week about how to surprise her mother, she dressed her two little brothers for camp. Instead of saying how wonderful she was, her mother got mad and told her she had planned for one of them to wear those pants on Tuesday, not Monday (which it was).

I wish I could tell you not to get involved and not to be a place for your grandchildren to come to complain but I see that ship has sailed and you are enjoying being the captain.
Your daughter has the right to run her own ship and doesnt need you manning the complaint department.
The only response from a grandmother to a granddaughter who comes with such a complaint is a huge hug and an I love you sooo much. Never Never Never criticize their mother to them. Please!! Dont be part of the problem. Besides it can boomerang on you.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 11:01 am

amother OP wrote:

If I am understanding you , she is disheveled, unkempt,lost weight, and doesnt take care of the children? She doesnt sleep well? Spends a lot of daytime hours in bed?

Does she eat nutritious meals and serve well balanced appropriate meals to the kids? Does she dress them appropriately?

You described her as a "best camper" and successful at most of what she did during her childhood. (no history of psychiatric or emotional problems.). So something happened recently?

Is she unaware of the way she looks? Or is she working hard to hide something? Or is she afraid her husband is trying to take her children away from her?

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 11:15 am

amother OP wrote:

And there is a tendency for OPs to ask advice but withhold vital information. You get the advice you seek, so its interesting when I reread your original post it was mostly about your SIL. And the title is about your dc Shalom Bayis but now you are describing a crisis situation due to your dd's possible mental illness. Your posts negate what you wrote previously.
You wrote that your dd is totally focused on her children and doesnt give your SIL enough time and attention but now write that she neglects them and your SIL is a terrified young man trying to save his family. Which one is it?

You also wrote that she doesnt get together with her friends, with 7 little ones, isnt that normal?

Please feel free to ignore any of our posts, its your life after all. Just giving you different perspectives as food for thought before you act.

Mamushka

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 11:49 am

Op can I suggest you talk to your daughter and ask her how she is doing. Spend time with her. Don't preach. Just listen.
You will hopefully understand if she needs help and what kind of help. Watching the kids or sending foodover you can do. The rest you need to outsource. I think that will be the healthiest for all of you.
Good luck!

amother

Snowdrop

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 2:36 pm

B'Siyata DiShamaya wrote:

So I've noticed that the husband is always the villian according to you. I wonder why.

OP is trying to help. No need to question her motives and always assume that the wife is perfect and the world is out to get her.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 3:56 pm

amother Snowdrop wrote:

So I've noticed that the husband is always the villian according to you. I wonder why.

I'm not the issue here. If you want to do a spin off - be my guest. This thread is about OPs dc's Shalom Bayis (see the title).

OP is trying to help. No need to question her motives and always assume that the wife is perfect and the world is out to get her.

Im trying to understand what help she wants. Sometimes "trying to help" is the worst thing a person can do. As I wrote, her actions my be well intended but boomerang. Good intentions and all that. Perhaps the OP should consult a Rav who knows the situation.. it sounds complicated.
In the medical profession, the adage is First do no harm...I think it applies here too.

Cheiny

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 4:10 pm

amother Snowdrop wrote:

No one said the wife is perfect. No one here knows what’s really going on with that situation.

But one thing is clear, or should be. A mother’s first priority is her own child, not her in law child. The focus should be on doing whatever is necessary to help the daughter, not based on or necessarily believing everything the sil is saying.

amother

Azalea

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 4:50 pm

B'Siyata DiShamaya wrote:

7 children? No wonder DD has no time for her husband. Let him cut her some slack and understand she is overwhelmed. Start there and see where it takes them.

No. Not over 5 yrs. You can have a week or month where you are overwhelmed but not 5 yrs of not having time for your husband especially when everyone is offering to help and she is refusing to accept the help.

This is way beyond a little help. OP this sounds like a serious psychiatric disorder that needs real medical treatment.
You say your daughter won't face it. I believe you. Is there any way to make her face it? Any kind of ultimatum which will make her face up to the fact that she is suffering, her family are suffering and it doesn't need to be that way?

amother

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 5:30 pm

amother Azalea wrote:

I very much agree. I am willing to be the korban if she goes for help but I don't think it will work. Unfortunately she doesn't have a role model or rav that she would simply listen to.

amother

Zinnia

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 8:06 pm

OP, the #1 thing you can do for your dd is: Be Nice.

No one likes to feel criticized or ganged up on. Your dd is not stupid, do you think she doesn't know her husband speaks to you? So now her dh and her mother are talking about her behind her back. That's way, way more painful than if he'd be talking to his own parents about her.

Be there for her and do NOT try to meddle in her life. Be nice, be pleasant. Don't tell her what to do or offer things you think she needs. Pretend she is someone you're trying to make friends with who you don't know much about yet.

The poor woman. You say your sil doesn't have a mother, but from the way you mistrust her, it sounds almost like your poor dd is the one without a mother.

amother

Cobalt

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 8:10 pm

amother OP wrote:

This has been the status quo for at least 5 years. I actually don't think it has as much to do with him as with being angry at herself. She was one of those perfect girls- smart, pretty, talented, great student, camper of the year...and I think she thought she would be better at adult things than other people. In the end she struggles with the same issues as everyone and is disappointed in herself.

im more like her in this way and have a miserable life. I’m miserable, the circumstances are pretty normal.(it’s me) Life is just hard for me. Terrible SB Sad

and I hate myself for it

amother

Cobalt

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 8:13 pm

dankbar wrote:

Is it possible, that she is feeling inadequate, because she cant reach his high expectations of her? Maybe you are dissapointed in her, which doesnt help? Then she feels like a failure, which feeds into the vicious cycle? Is it possible that if he accepts her, for who she is, with her flaws, that she she will feel better about herself, which will help her function better? Maybe sge needs a break, can you vabysit and sent them off on a vacation together or even a date night where they can connect and dont have to worry about childcare? Can you give them money to go to therapy, but you dont get involved, because it’s not your place? Did you tell your daughter that you are here to support her, and if shes ready to.open up, youre here to listen?

if it were my husband he’d be reporting rage but this advice would be spot on

Bleemee

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 8:24 pm

amother Lightblue wrote:

Simple. People are used to it being about sides. It's very rare - or at least people think it's rare - for someone to be trying to help the family as a unit. So when you talk about an issue it's always seen as blaming and taking sides.

👏👏

fmt4

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 8:27 pm

amother OP wrote:

SIL2 has been talking to me a lot about their shalom bayis, which seems to be in shambles. DD2 is completely focused on the children and ignores him in every possible way. SIL feels lonely and marginalized. He has begged her to go to therapy with him but she simply shuts him down immediately. SIL doesn't have a good relationship with his father and doesn't have a mother so has "adopted" me as mom, which I usually like. I love him like my own. Really. But I feel helpless here.

I'm very confused. In your OP the issue seems to be their relationship - she is focused on the kids and doesn't have time for him. Honestly, this reminds me of a lot of insecure, immature, selfish husbands who don't help their wives at all and then get jealous when their wives don't have time for them because they have so much on their plates.
Then this morphed into something quite different - her children are in danger and he needs to save them? She doesn't take care of herself? Unkempt? Doesn't leave bed?

Something is off here.