Little girls can be so mean

BatZion

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 5:59 am

I watch my 5 y o with the girls she calls friends and cringe.
They can be so...mean to each other.
Whispering in front of one another, excluding other kids, being outright mean to each other's faces.
Am I just overly sensitive?
I see that when she has them over one at a time to play in our house they're like sweet little angels, but when they play together in the park or whatever, they're so often mean to one another.
A lot of the time, she plays with two other girls and I get the feeling that they're often mean to my child, excluding her, and speaking meanly to her.
Is this normal behavior?
Should I be encouraging other friendships or just letting nature run its social course?
This is my oldest girl, so I don't know if this is me just shocked by girls in the same way that I am sometimes shocked by the boy revelations too Very Happy

Boys seem so much more "what you see is what you get". Girls are so much more...nuanced. There's the explicit and the implicit. There are social cues. There's what you say and what you mean.
Advice me wise mothers who have been here and seen this...

amother

Begonia

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 7:22 am

BatZion wrote:

Honestly, throw the tomatoes at me, but this is basically what happens when a bunch of females get together, irrespective of age. Gossipy, mean and judgmental. Some of the posts on here sadly support this viewpoint. “What you see is what you get” as you describe is much healthier. Unfortunately most women don’t behave that way.

imasinger

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 7:36 am

I think we absolutely have an obligation to step in -- but not overtly in the moment.

Rather, we can have regular conversations at the Shabbos table or elsewhere about how important it is to remember that everyone has a spark of Hashem inside them. And when someone either is directly mean, or is more nuanced (talking and thinking about them as a nebbuch case, rather than looking to find what they have to teach us), they are not doing the right thing.

We can model this, and also talk about our modeling. We can say, "in this house we ...", and teach that this is a middah that matters.

And we can also have conversations about how to handle friends who aren't doing this. All in more general terms.

If your DD isn't spending time with a nice group of girls, and she understands that she can choose to spend time elsewhere, maybe she will vote with her feet. For a 5 year old, you can encourage this by talking to her teacher and getting names of some kinder girls, and maybe arranging a get together.

boysrus

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 9:27 am

I did not have this experience when my daughter was that age.BH.
It really depends on the situation, are these built-in / automatic friends, who live close to you and they will naturally gravitate towards each other? Because if so, you will have to do something about it.
If they are just school friends and you can avoid them hanging out together then you can try to minimize the time they spend together outside of school.
It also might be cultural, depending on where you live the kids can either be tougher or gentler. In the USA I find the girls are more sensitive in general, they are sensitive little flowers at that age and dissolve into tears a lot, and they are usually more sensitive to each others feelings. In Israel the kids are generally tougher in my experience.

Here's what I have done when my kids have had any problems with the neighbor's kids:
1) Talk to my child, discuss things like, do you like it when x happens? do you think it's nice to do that, do you think it's nice when y does that? tell the child to tell her friend, we really shouldn't do x to so and so, it's not so nice.

2) If kids continue doing things like that after you discuss it with your child, then it's time to involve the parents. Caution - Handle with care otherwise you will ruin your friendships with the kids mothers! (Once happened to me...). The best way to discuss this is to bring it up as if its your child's problem, not their child's. Say things like, I'm a bit worried about what I see when x and y are playing with z. They are excluding z and not saying such nice things. How can we teach them to be mentschlich and good friends? basically including yourself in the problem. Get the other mothers to talk to their kids

3) daven for siyata d'shmaya Smile

hatzlacha

Last edited by boysrus on Mon, Sep 11 2023, 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Charcoal

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 10:51 am

BatZion wrote:

its the kids.
its a HUGE problem in my neighborhood unfortunately. One of my girls is a bully target. It really affected her so so so deeply that she developed tics which of course now the mean girls get a kick out of imitating and laughing. and as a mother it is so so so unbearably extremely painful. I really can't understand it. shes pretty and so sweet, extremely bright and kind and fun to be with. there is no talking to the parents as they couldn't care less and where do you think these kids pickup up these nasty middos?
a lot of people in the neighborhood complain about these 3 families and there is nothing to be done.
(my other kids aren't bh excluded and group bullied although there is one boy who's 2 years older than my son and whenever he sees my son he'll potch my son HARD for no reason. I spoke to the mother more than once. nothing changes. This mother is overwhelmed and struggling with her mental health and emotionally teetering on the edge. but I'm VERY careful whenever my son goes out.)

It definitely isn't like this everywhere. it wasn't like this in my old neighborhood. or in my siblings neighborhood or when I was growing up.

so no, its not the way its supposed to be.

BatZion

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 12:41 pm

amother Charcoal wrote:

Oof I'm sending you and your daughter a huge hug. This is so painful to read Sad

BatZion

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 12:57 pm

imasinger wrote:

Such wise words. I appreciate you weighing in Imasinger!

BatZion

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 1:03 pm

boysrus wrote:

hatzlacha

Thank you so much for adding your insights!
This is a big part of the problem. We live in a smallish community, and the social options are limited. There aren't so many girls her age. Last year things seemed okay. This year I've really noticed these unpleasant interactions happening all the time.
The kids are very tough. Also the girls. My little girl isn't a sensitive little flower either LOL

but I don't like the effect they have on her. I see they make her feel bad, and she also picks up on their chutzpadik attitude.
I've been speaking to her about this in recent weeks. I think I'm going to ask her kindergarten teacher how she sees things playing out there. Last year they were like this awesome threesome. Somewhere along the way, it became this awesome twosome and the one who gets picked on and left out (my kid).
Right, I'm kind of nervous about broaching the subject with the mothers because of the whole small community dynamics. One of the mothers is SO sweet, and her daughter is...not. The other I don't know so well.
You've given me some food for thought! Thank you!

Rappel

Mon, Sep 11 2023, 1:06 pm

BatZion wrote:

I read the rest of the thread now.

Correct me if I'm wrong: For lack of any friends, She may be picking girls whom she considers "cool" rather than the ones whom are nice. It's a self-feeding destructive pattern: "they give me negative attention, and I'm desperate for attention, so I'm attracted toward them."

Ask her teacher for a list of the mature, friendly kids in her class. Explain the situation to their parents, and set up playdates with them. Guide the play dates at first. And ask the teacher to pair her up with the successful candidates wherever possible.