Rav said "Its assur to leave before Havdala" on Yom Kipur?

amother

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:13 am

amother Bottlebrush wrote:

Our shul davens maariv and havdala first and does shofar last, so nobody leaves until the shofar. Its like a whole extra 5 minutes and no one has died yet because of this.

No idea why they do it this way but its really nice that everyone leaves at once.

Ive been to many Shuls, and I always heard the Shofar first. No exception!

5 minutes? I find that close to impossible. Can the men really daven maariv and say Havdala in 5 minutes?

But if eating is Assur before Havdala, all Shuls should do it that way, no matter how long it takes, because Im sure many women eat when they get home, as theyre preparing food. Its being Machti es Harabim if they blow Shofar first, when most women leave.

I think it would start the post Y"K night, on a bad start, if any husband "took his time" coming home.

amother

Honeydew

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:19 am

In my local shul, and when I lived in Brooklyn in practically every shul in my neighborhood, they blow the shofar, then marriv. Marriv takes MINUTES literally. They say it THAT fast. It's common practice / minhug that the baal tefila is someone who has clear fast speech.

Dh was home 11-12 minutes after zman and it's a 5-6 minute walk home from shul.

Busybee5

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:25 am

We drink water before hearing havdala, if we really need it. Which I usually do.
My dh makes havdala at home, they don't do it in his shul. They all go home and make havdala for themselves and their families.

Last edited by Busybee5 on Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:28 am; edited 2 times in total

amother

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:26 am

amother Honeydew wrote:

DH has NEVER come home less than 1/2 hour after me so Id be extending the fast at least 1/2 hour.

If I could drink grape juice and say Havdala that would be good.

But if I have to prepare grape juice, light the Havdala and hold the Bsamin, its a full Havdala, and more complicated to prepare and hold alone, Id rather extend the fast.

amother

Celeste

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:33 am

No besamim unless it's motzei shabbos.

No first paragraph of hinei kel yeshuasi. Starts with bircas hagafen.

I made havdallah myself.
Went home.
Took out grapejuice and cup. Poured.
Took a match and lit havdalah candle from preexisting flame (yahrzeit candle). (That's also a halacha for motzei YK)
ETA saw you mention needing to hold everything. Buy a standing havdalah candle. No one needs to hold it ever.
Said three Brachos. Done. Eat.

It's not being machti es harabim. It's the opposite. Your rov was teaching everyone a halacha so they wouldn't be nichshal.

If you would like, you can ask your rov in advance if someone could make havdalah in shul for the women immediately at earliest zman

amother

Darkblue

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:45 am

amother OP wrote:

Ive been to many Shuls, and I always heard the Shofar first. No exception!

But if eating is Assur before Havdala, all Shuls should do it that way, no matter how long it takes, because Im sure many women eat when they get home, as theyre preparing food. It’s being Machti es Harabim if they blow Shofar first, when most women leave.

I think it would start the post Y"K night, on a bad start, if any husband "took his time" coming home.

It’s not being machti es harabim because for those of us who grew up frum, we know we can’t eat before havadala since we’re 12. Also, it’s similar to mots. Shab. When we also need to wait for havdala to eat. If my husband didn’t daven in the shul right near us, I go to my neighbor for havdala.

amother

Celeste

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:49 am

Shofar is the end of neilah. I've never been anywhere where it's after maariv. That's not where it's meant to be done, and it absolutely shouldn't be moved to after maariv!!

But you can make havdalah for yourself as I wrote before.

mommyhood

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:49 am

amother OP wrote:

No besamim unless it’s motzei Shabbos.
Buy a 2 wick candle that fits in a candle holder so you don’t have to hold it and it’s super quick and easy. I’ve always made havdallah myself motzei YK. It was weird the first time but now it’s so normal.
Ner Mitzvah Yaknehaz Candle - Pure Beeswax Yaknehaz Havdalah Candle - Hand Dipped Multi Wick Candle - 1 Pack https://a.co/d/5v36lBD

seeker

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:51 am

amother OP wrote:

Prepare the grape juice?

Sorry I'm just not seeing what's complicated. If you're weak enough that you can't pour a cup then you definitely shouldn't wait an extra half hour.

For the fire you just look at the candle that was lit before yk.

The bracha is not that long. Unless maybe if you're dyslexic. Maybe you can say it in English.

I'm also assuming the rabbi said eat, not leave, and you mis-heard. It makes so much sense.

amother

Midnight

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:51 am

amother OP wrote:

No besamim after YK unless it's Saturday night. (You can get one of the havdala candles that stand up. That's what we use year round anyway.)
An Artscroll machzer is very helpful, it explains everything that is needed and what to do. Making havdala for myself last night was super simple and quick...pretty much all I had to do was light my standing candle, pour the grape juice, say the 2 brachos and a very very short passage.

Ema of 5

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:53 am

amother Pumpkin wrote:

Some hold that ladies can't make a full havdala on their own. (Don't remember why right now)
I have several neighbors that come to listen to my husband's havdala because their husband come home much later (single girl and lady who doesn't have a husband come every year as well!)
Op it's not a mitzva to extend the fast.
We are all mechuyav to hear havdala before eating.

Then it’s a good thing that havdala after Yom Kippur isn’t full havdala.
As others have said, according to my rabbi, one must hear havdala before eating. Drinking water is ok, if you must. You can do melacha before hearing havdala, but you need to say Baruch hamavdil bein modest l’chol first.

happy7

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 8:57 am

Our rabbi also made an announcement that one the shofar can be blown BEFORE the fast is over, and one should wait until the fast is over to do melacha or say havdalah.

amother

Periwinkle

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 9:03 am

Elfrida wrote:

My shul doesn't even make havdallah in shul. About half the women leave after shofar; the other half stay for maariv.

One may not eat before havdallah. There are some opinions that on Yom Kippur one may not do melacha before havdallah.

So if someone has their car at shul from before Yom Kippur (as in my case), they can’t drive home and then make havdalah? It’s melacha, but I don’t believe it’s a problem.

Elfrida

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 9:25 am

amother Periwinkle wrote:

So if someone has their car at shul from before Yom Kippur (as in my case), they can’t drive home and then make havdalah? It’s melacha, but I don’t believe it’s a problem.

Some people do hold that it is an issue. You can ask your Rav before next year if you are concerned. If your shul makes havdallah in shul, the obvious solution would be to wait a few more minutes to hear havdallah before driving home.

Yesterday we went home with friends, and she suggested that she would start heating up the soup while her husband got havdallah ready. He reminded her not to do melachah before havdallah, so the soup waited.

amother

Obsidian

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 9:41 am

OP as others have explained to you, you cannot eat before havdalah. You can drink. I find after a fast I’m more thirsty than hungry anyway. I drink a sugary drink to tide me over until dh comes home. Alternatively, you can connect with a neighbor to hear havdalah from them.

amother

Sienna

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 9:50 am

He definitely didn’t say that it’s assur to leave shul.
Most shuls don’t make havdallah. Men make havdallah when they come home from shul .
It’s definitely assur to eat before hearing havdallah.
Maariv after Yom Kippur is 10 minutes and they all run home. Everyone was fasting and just needs to get home fast. No one is extending shul at that point.
You do not have to hear the shofar after Yom Kippur. There is no mitzvah. It’s symbolic. It’s blown after neilah and there’s no chiyuv that one must hear it. That’s rosh hashana.
I left shul as soon as neilah was over so I could start preparing food. I walked the 4-5 minute walk home. Dh stayed for maariv and drove home. He came home 13 minutes after me. We made havdallah on the spot and ate.

amother

Cobalt

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 9:53 am

amother OP wrote:

I make havdala for myself every yom kippur. You're not allowed to eat before. I just say hagafen and hamavdil bracha & do ha'eish when DH makes havdala when he comes home. No besamim on yom kippur.
It's really not that big of a deal to make havdala on your own, man women do.

miami85

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 9:55 am

My rav for many years used to give this speech right before maariv on motzai yom kippur, "It's after yom kippur and your din has been sealed and the malachim are rushing out to give you your brachos, but the shuls are empty...please stay a few moments and daven maariv, if nothing else stay for barchu"

I think if anything they want to make sure you say Atah Chonantanu/baruch hamavdil.

doodlesmom

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 10:02 am

Your husband should come home quicker if possible.
Maybe skip havdala in shul, or maybe go back later for maariv, or maybe go to a minyan that starts mariv exactly by the zman.