How much phonics are your kids schools teaching

amother

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 10:07 pm

amother NeonPurple wrote:

I wrote the name of a wonderful frum phonics based company

Read Right

Yes, they have a great program and lots of schools use them. My son's school who has serious secular subjects deficit uses it. That's why I was so surprised. Because his school is one of the worst schools in terms of English Subjects so I was under the impression that this is the standard. But truth is I'm not in a bunch of schools.

More than a decade ago I actually taught first grade for about a month. I have no recollection of how I taught it though. I just remember that half the class was reading while the other half didn't even know the sounds of all the alphabet. Was disaster. I thought that it was because they pressured the kids too much and went too fast. Maybe.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 10:10 pm

Some boys schools want the kids reading fluently in Hebrew before 1st and then find it easy to teach them English when they're strong readers in a different language first so the discrepancy between kids in that type of first grade is larger than in schools where they prepare the kids to read before 1st...

amother

Blueberry

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 10:13 pm

amother OP wrote:

Interesting. So there really are schools that don't teach that much phonics. Thanks for sharing!

Just want to say that I don't really know enough to have an opinion. I've taught a few challanged readers and they needed phonics but it doesn't prove anything. Clearly some kids do need phonics. I'm much more intuitively inclined to just allowing a kid to not figure out a word so they should enjoy reading, honestly. That's my nature and intuition so I see both sides.

I have a lot to say on this topic but 1 thing I found interesting is that Mayor Adams has been open about having dyslexia. I think these are the kids who can really only learn to properly read with a phonics based system.

amother

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 10:23 pm

amother Blueberry wrote:

That's what it seems. My husband actually learned to read on his own, by his mother reading to him. I've never met anyone else though like that. My son on the other hand hated phonics and I had to push it down his throat. Till today he reads but not very quickly and not always correctly. I think he used a lot of common sense to figure out the words, and pictures. His spelling is atrocious. Been trying to get him to allow me to teach him. He's already a teen. I don't think it's ever too late to teach someone how to read

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 10:37 pm

amother OP wrote:

You've really never met anyone else who learned to read without formal instruction?

amother

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 10:51 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

You've really never met anyone else who learned to read without formal instruction?

I was shocked. My husband is quite smart and I know his mother read to him tons. He also did very poorly in school so I believe him that he taught himself to read.

Most kids go to school, so even if hypothetically they could teach themselves to read they don't.

You make it sound like it's common. How many ppl do you know who learned to read on their own?

amother

Blueberry

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 10:53 pm

amother OP wrote:

Just throwing it out there, maybe he'd work better with someone other than you?

And spelling, yes that is an ongoing issue. Ds's spelling is so atrocious that spellcheck is often perplexed! I don't see any correlation between his reading ability and his spelling ability. He finds voice to text helpful.

amother

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 10:55 pm

amother Blueberry wrote:

I agree! Probably, but can't afford it right now. Not giving up on him. I will wear him down Wink

That's interesting that you don't see a correlation. He reads really well and his spelling his bad?

For example my son can't spell the word splat. His spelling is worse than my child 5 years younger than him!

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 10:59 pm

amother OP wrote:

My husband and I both learned to read at home at around 4 by watching older siblings learn to read/hearing books read aloud.

I can't remember if it was 1 or 2 of my sons who were in a school that only taught reading in 1st started reading before 1st.

A handful of my girls basically took the alphabet and ran with it, reading before formal instruction really started (only pre-reading/letter recognition).
With a good vocabulary and grit, they were able to guess quite a bit and became strong readers very quickly. They do have excellent spelling as well, so I'm not sure if it's a good visual memory or an understanding of phonics (with English being what it is with all its exceptions!)

This whole topic fascinates me! I find it amazing that kids can actually read the English language with so many rules/variations. A lot is comprehension/context clues which is a bit of an older age skill.

I actually had one kid who had a friend where both were good readers but my daughter was better phonetically (gibberish words) and her friend was better based on context clues.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 11:00 pm

amother OP wrote:

I agree! Probably, but can't afford it right now. Not giving up on him. I will wear him down Wink

How would he spell it? I'm trying to think what other way there can be, 2 it's at the end?

amother

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 11:03 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Me too (fascinated!)

I think that I usually rely on familiarity. In other words if I want to read a new word I see which word I know (vocabulary )that would maybe sound like this in this context. So I do think really in the end we do memorize words but how we memorize them is often through phonics.

I tutored a kid who was really struggling with the phonics, mixing up all the vowel sound especially long as short. I did word families with him and he took off like a rocket. He actually has a math brain so I would have thought that phonics is the same type of brain.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 11:16 pm

amother OP wrote:

Is is definitely true that the more we read and pick up on, the more become sight words and word recognition. But phonics is still definitely necessary for me when I come across some complex word (usually scientific!) and then I need to break it down just like younger kids do with smaller words.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 11:19 pm

amother OP wrote:

Set maybe 😊. Like totally doesn't get how to spell at all. The other day I was shocked he could spell cat. I think that's as good as he gets!

Oh wow, I can't relate to that. I do wonder about the phonics/spelling connection then, because while one may not be a perfect speller, there should be some semblance of understanding why a word is spelled how it is. In my kids' first grade class, their teacher instructs them to sound out the word and write it how it sounds if they don't know the word.
I guess that's why I got out in the spelling bee in third grade. I tried spelling laity as layatee. Which is fine for a third grader, just not for winning a school wide one!

amother

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 11:20 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Let's say you read the word seismic, do you rely on phonics or on your known vocabulary? I totally rely on my known vocabulary. One thing I noticed about watching television and listening to the radio is that it improves my reading because I can figure out how to pronounce words and understand words better.

amother

Pearl

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 11:25 pm

amother OP wrote:

I speak mainly Yiddish in my home. But my kids are exposed to plenty of English, though they never had any formal English instruction. The most they got was an aunt who told them the names of the letters in the alphabet.

So far, 8 of my kids have taught themselves to read English. They read at or above age level and some of them are very good writers as well.

Four of my kids learned to read Hebrew before they were taught to in school, although I had showed them the general principles first. (They had an edge here because they were able to self-correct when reading books in Yiddish.)

amother

Blueberry

Wed, Sep 27 2023, 11:27 pm

amother OP wrote:

I agree! Probably, but can't afford it right now. Not giving up on him. I will wear him down Wink

He can spell splat, but his spelling is not where it should be. Can't really think of any examples right now. Btw, I have older kids who are also poor spellers but were always bh great readers. One is now post high school. I remember asking his elementary school teachers to give him remedial spelling tests. Go figure.

#BestBubby

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 12:03 am

In a frum magazine there was a letter to the editor about a man who got the wrong prescription which could have killed him.

The two medicines were long words that started and ended with the same letter.

The pharmacist with decades of education mixed these medicines up which could have been fatal!