It isn’t just the frum schools!

amother

Thu, Sep 28 2023, 8:24 pm

https://www.insider.com/school.....023-9

School days are incompatible with parents' work day, and kids are not getting enough sleep

Kelly BurchSep 27, 2023, 5:32 AM EDT
Rear view of schoolgirl with backpack waiting for bus while standing on footpath
Cavan Images/Getty Images
Many schools in the US operate from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m.
The schedule is historic but doesn't meet the needs of many families today.
Experts say the schedule hasn't changed because it's so entrenched.
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Liz Fuller-Wright, a New Jersey mom, said her sons' school schedules were "completely incompatible" with full-time work.

"I can't schedule late afternoon meetings, I can't participate in the end-of-day socialization around the watercooler that is so vital for supporting work relationships, plus I have to put in a third or fourth shift after the boys are in bed when I can finally focus again," said Fuller-Wright, whose boys are 4 and 7.

It's a frustration that's common for many American parents. The stereotypical workday stretches from 9 to 5, while the typical school day runs from 8 to 3. That leaves many working parents with a conundrum that many people recognize, but few institutions have been able to change.

The history of the 8 to 3 school day

The 8 to 3 school schedule emerged alongside public education in the mid to late 1800s. Alex Anderson-Kahl, a school psychologist in Columbia, Missouri, who founded the blog Healing Little Hearts, noted that back then, mothers were typically thought to be homemakers, while children were needed to work around the home and in businesses in the afternoons.

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Anderson-Kahl said that within that scenario, free time after school had a lot of potential.

"This could foster a sense of responsibility and community involvement," he said.

The gap between when the school day ends and when the work day finishes, however, simply doesn't work for many modern families. Twenty-three percent of US kids live with one parent and no other adult. If that parent works in the afternoon, childcare can be hard to come by. In addition, both parents work in more than 63% of two-parent houses.

In those cases, parents often turn to after-school programs, which can be expensive and difficult to access, Anderson-Kahl says. About 10 million kids participate in after-school programs, and nearly 20 million would participate if the programs were available. Yet, the programs can be hardest to find in rural and low-income areas.

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"The misalignment between school end times and typical work end times can place additional stress on families, especially those with limited resources," Anderson-Kahl said.

There's a biological reason school should start later

In addition to the logistical argument for a longer or later-starting school day, there's a biological imperative, too. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends middle and high schools start no earlier than 8:30 a.m. so students can get the recommended eight to nine hours of sleep.

Yet three-quarters of schools in the US start before that time. When you add in factors like homework time and extracurriculars, "adequate sleep a virtual impossibility," said Bobby Morgan, a New Jersey middle-school vice principal and educational consultant.

Getting enough sleep can be particularly tough for students who live a long way from school, he added.

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Change in education — including the school day — is very hard

The 8 to 3 school day has never been ideal, and yet systemic change has been hard to come by. Morgan says that reflects a bigger issue within education.

"This conversation connects to a larger consideration: Why is it so hard for schools to change?" he said.

Too often, school boards and state departments of education don't involve stakeholders such as parents and teachers in their policy decisions, Morgan says. Although progress might be slow, he says parents should continue to advocate for policies that work for their families.

"The work of change is hard, yet despite these challenges, progress can be made by fostering collaboration among stakeholders, greater accountability, and engaging in ongoing dialogue about the need for greater equity and access in education," he said.

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Until that happens, the burden of coping with outdated school hours is expected to continue to fall on parents like Fuller-Wright.

"Those of us working full-time jobs will still have to work full-time hours while cobbling together childcare," she said.

naomi2

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 11:38 pm

School is not a babysitting service. It's not school that changes it's society. The breakdown of the traditional family and the women going out to work and also, children have less independence. Also, I can't imagine it's good for a 1-13 year old to be in a school environment from 8-6.

amother

Moonstone

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 11:47 pm

naomi2 wrote:

So it's good for them to be in school from 8-3 and then after school from 3-6 ?

amother

Cognac

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 11:51 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

So it's good for them to be in school from 8-3 and then after school from 3-6 ?

After school programs are more active and less structured/mentally demanding.

naomi2

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 8:30 am

No it's not good for kids to be out of the house so many hrs a day. I didn't say there is a solution, just that the way things are is unhealthy.

#BestBubby

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 8:44 am

Sounds like 9-4 makes more sense than 8-3.

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 8:48 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Sounds like 9-4 makes more sense than 8-3.

Parents still can't work full time with that schedule, without extra care.

#BestBubby

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 8:50 am

Two parents should not work full-time.

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 8:53 am

naomi2 wrote:

No it's not good for kids to be out of the house so many hrs a day. I didn't say there is a solution, just that the way things are is unhealthy.

I grew up with before care and after from the age of 5. I had a great childhood and happy life and wonderful relationship with my parents. Not sure what was unhealthy about my situation.

amother

Chocolate

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 8:57 am

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

I grew up with before care and after from the age of 5. I had a great childhood and happy life and wonderful relationship with my parents. Not sure what was unhealthy about my situation.

I'm curious about this
was the before-care and after care a live-in nanny?
a grandma?
were you shepherded from home to home?

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 9:06 am

amother Chocolate wrote:

I'm curious about this
was the before-care and after care a live-in nanny?
a grandma?
were you shepherded from home to home?

It was free before and after care at the local public school. So not a viable option for most frum families. I don't know what a working solution for most families is, but you won't be destroying your children by having them out of the house for a full day.

My parents were both able to work full-time and be financially stable, and retire and be self-sufficient financially into IYH old age, which provides more family stability much further down the road. I think they made very responsible choices.

amother

Vanilla

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 9:30 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Two parents should not work full-time.

You should not be telling parents what to do, are you offering to pay the difference if one cuts back on their hours?
As long as they can make it work they can work as long as they need. Cutting back is not the solution to the school schedule issue.

amother

Sage

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 9:32 am

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

Yeah, that won't work for most families. Certainly not a large sized family.

My sil had that where mom worked all day, came home exhausted for dinner. Family member abused her in those times.
The money is not gonna be remembered later.

amother

Blushpink

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 9:38 am

In an ideal world both parents work part time and kids don't need to spend so much time at school.
Realistically, most kids spend all day at school and parents work all day. Society has the wrong schedule.

amother

Amaranthus

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 9:41 am

In my community, starting from 4th grade, boys are already at school from 7:45 to 5:00 pm. It's not aftercare, that's just the basic day school schedule.

Amarante

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 10:31 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

So it's good for them to be in school from 8-3 and then after school from 3-6 ?

The after school STAR program is wonderful and isn't at all like being in school.

It is no different than having kids participate in any extra curricular activity.

It is more like camp and most people think camp is better than having kids just hang out at home.

Amelia Bedelia

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 10:36 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Sounds like 9-4 makes more sense than 8-3.

That's the schedule in most frum in-town schools

amother

Lightyellow

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 12:28 pm

I think the real issue is that work days are too long. American bosses pursue profit at the expense of their own well being and expect their employees to do the same.

GLUE

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 12:40 pm

The high schools are from 7-2, many people think that high school should not start until 8:30. The problem is busing how are the buses suppose to take the high school kids the same time as elementary?

Elementary can't start earlier because as the parents point out they can't get their kids out earlier and many after school places are staffed by high school kids. So what are parents going to do if there is no after care?

There are parents who work from 8-4 that send to public school.

amother

Vanilla

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 1:08 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

I think the real issue is that work days are too long. American bosses pursue profit at the expense of their own well being and expect their employees to do the same.

This makes sense. It's hard to find any work for less hours.
It used to be that a part time job was from 10 -2, this is for the heimish world. No such thing exists anymore, no boss will hire for those hours. At most it's from 9-3.
I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule but this is how it is across the board.