I went OTD but am now back on AMA

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amother

Almond

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 10:47 pm

amother OP wrote:

Be kind to them. Be someone they are comfortable to talk to and open up to without fear of getting in trouble. And make sure rules about safety and rules about frumkeit are clear and separate. I know so many people who start to go off and don’t really know the difference between what’s against halacha and what is not actually safe. Ie. non kosher vs. drugs. if you grow up with a message that eating non-kosher is poisoning your body the jump
to doing drugs isn’t that far off. Same with holding hands with a boy or having relations.

I think you're absolutely right however I can see frum parents having a difficult time with this because they hold these principles very dear so then suddenly they'd say that eating non kosher is ok?

Do you keep up with your OTD friends? (if you have any)

I know I'm asking a lot of questions sorry I'm trying to navigate my own stuff!

Rubber Ducky

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 10:50 pm

How did you meet your husband? Is his story similar to yours?

Stardust242

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 10:58 pm

Mindfully wrote:

Please excuse me asking but I am trying to understand. Do you have a mental health issue, diagnosis or low self esteem?

Why do you assume that mental health and "OTD" goes together? That, if anything, is the biggest flaw here.

amother

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 11:03 pm

Mindfully wrote:

Please excuse me asking but I am trying to understand. Do you have a mental health issue, diagnosis or low self esteem?

I appreciate those who stood up for me here but it’s ok and I don’t mind answering. The answer to all of the above is no. It’s important to address and as a community we need to stop thinking this way because it invalidates the experience of so many people. And we can’t help or stop anything without first understanding.

amother

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 11:18 pm

amother Almond wrote:

I do understand this. But I don’t think a parent has to say eating non kosher is ok to distinguish. “Eating non kosher food is against Halacha but the wrong type of drugs can kill you”.

I don’t keep up with any of my otd friends because I found it to be very negative and draining. (to clarify - not that I wouldn’t keep in touch with any individuals because they are otd, but just as a whole the otd “community” is pretty strong minded and I found the negativity to affect me in a way I didn’t like. I don’t have any organic otd friends meaning the only otd people I knew were through groups and meetups etc.)

Mindfully

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 11:28 pm

amother Almond wrote:

Um what? Why would you ask this?

To understand what made you go OTD. Is it possible that if you are not happy with yourself, your life, even due to a mental illness, that causes people to go OTD.
You said you saw flaws in people. A stabler mind would see that others have flaws and move on perhaps.

amother

Peach

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 11:35 pm

Mindfully wrote:

There is not one reason people go OTD. It can be from mental illness or difficult upbringings, but it is not the only reason people go OTD.

amother

Crimson

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:41 am

Did you at any time feel guilty doing sins like being mechalel shabos or not going dressed tznues or not eating kosher?

Did you feel bad for your family that they are ashamed from other people like neighbors or family?

amother

Lemonchiffon

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 12:47 am

Is it easier to be dressed not tznius when it’s super hot outside ?
I’m asking because sometimes I wish I can walk out in a crop top and shorts because it’s so darn hot but I’m a good tzniusdig girl….

amother

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 7:34 am

amother Lemonchiffon wrote:

Not really to be honest. Not wearing tights is cooler but I remember even thinking sometimes, when it’s really hot it’s really hot no matter what you are wearing.

amother

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 7:37 am

amother Crimson wrote:

The first few times yes. I remember very clearly the first time I broke shabbos and the first non kosher I ate. At first I would think I was going to be sick every time I ate but then you get desensitized. At first I didn’t eat non kosher meat and I wouldn’t drive on Shabbos even if I broke it inside. I would never fly or book a flight on shabbos and even at my most “not frum” I wouldn’t like taking long car rides on shabbos. The first time I wore not tznious was a shirt below my collar bone and even in a skirt and tights I felt so bare and uncomfortable. But again slowly you get desensitized although I never felt comfortable to wear sleeveless or cropped or too tight anything. I did feel bad for my family but was also ashamed at myself for going so far from the life I imagined. But I would rationalize it that I was happier and “free”.

I want to emphasize that I was not rebellious as a teen and never got in with a bad crowd. I think this is what saved me in the end. Which is why in my previous answer I said it’s important for kids experimenting to know what’s actually chumra, what’s Halacha and what’s just plain stupid even by secular standards…
I got married young-ish for non frum standards and my husband grew up modern. I never want to college because I was so far behind academically from my schooling but worked really hard and now am an in a good job in the art world. My husband went to
law school.

amother

Moonstone

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 3:47 pm

My son is no longer frum. He doesn't believe in halacha because we have no firm proof in g-d. And without that, he doesn't feel the need/pull to live such a boundary filled life. BH, he's an awesome boy, wonderful middos, great sweet friends, smart etc Any advice?

amother

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 4:21 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

It sounds like you already did something amazing. I think showing the beauty in frumkeit as much as you can by example and your own love for it. You can’t expect him to come back or try to be mekarev him (I was definitely very tuned into this and hated the feeling). I do know people who stopped believing because of the same reasons but love the lifestyle so much that they stay. I always think in order to be frum you have to either 1) really love it or 2) really believe it. Ideally it’s both of course but there are plenty of people that fall into one category or the other… or some people who sort of love it and sort of believe and that’s enough for them

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 5:28 pm

amother OP wrote:

Fully OTD for about 10 years but made by way back, B”H. Happy to answer anything.

Did you "come back" to the same community or did you go more to the "left" when you returned to yiddishket?
This has been my own personal observation and of course not based on anything- but I find it is easier for a boy/young man to return than a woman but again just my personal observation.
If I understood you correctly- you didn't leave cuz you were in pain - more that you were a deeply feeling person and the double standards sort of killed it for you and you threw out the baby with the bathwater?

amother

Babypink

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 5:56 pm

Do you miss the freedom from not keeping tznius and kashrus? Those are the two things that are hardest for me.

amother

Tanzanite

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 6:52 pm

Wow wow wow. Kudos to you. You deserve so so much credit for returning. More than starting to keep halachos and Mitzvos again, but to face a whole nation and admit that there’s something special they have.

Can you talk about the stigma involved in coming back?

I’m amazed that there is a person that has the courage to make a comeback and be so strong about it. You’re a hero.

tweety1

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 7:36 pm

Op, u have no questions. But I must comment on your answers. Is writing a knack of yours? Your answers are so so beautifully written.

amother

Dimgray

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 7:38 pm

I'm really curious how lobster tastes, compared to foods we know.

amother

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 11:27 pm

amother Tanzanite wrote:

Thank you for the encouragement! I live out of town now which makes things a lot easier for me. I don’t actually talk about it much in real life… I’ve been taking on more over the last 5 years or so. I think ppl in my community just think I’m a BT (I guess maybe I am) unless we talk and they ask about where I grew up and went to school etc… then they ask questions. I’m not in touch with any old friends so they don’t know and I’m not sure how they would feel. Family has been accepting.

amother

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 11:28 pm

tweety1 wrote:

Op, u have no questions. But I must comment on your answers. Is writing a knack of yours? Your answers are so so beautifully written.

That’s really sweet of you to say, thank you!

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