I went OTD but am now back on AMA

amother

Daffodil

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 9:34 pm

Do you think the extreme unconditional love method where children who are OTD are given endless gifts, exotic trips, frequent dinners at high end restaurants, loads of attention, their desires/demands given much higher priority than those of their siblings, people bending over backward to ignore their negative behaviors no matter how it affects others etc. etc. and no boundaries or rules or expectations or demands - in the long run helps them or harms them?

I apologize in advance if my question is hurtful in any way. That is certainly not my intention. If it is, please ignore it.

amother

Lightyellow

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 9:42 pm

Was that as a kid/teenager or as an adult?
Was it out in the open or were you “in the closet”?

What made you lose your faith/observance, and what made you get it back?

Do you believe in Judaism 100% today? If yes, why?

amother

Almond

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 9:52 pm

I'm curious what made you come back?

Where you the type that would take part in groups that bash orthodox Jews? (it's ok if yes, I'm just wondering if there are every "those" kind of really angry people that make their way back)

What kind of frum lifestyle do you live now and what did you grow up with?

What's your advice for struggling teens? Adults? (I actually currently struggle with yiddishkeit)

amother

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 9:53 pm

Einikel wrote:

Adding: what ultimately made you come back?

To answer both questions:

I did not have any major trauma or difficult upbringing. My family definitely wasn’t the warmest but no abuse or anything like that. I started doubting daas Torah because of some hypocrisy I saw then gradually lost emunah. I saw flaws in the community that made me doubt everything. I think what started to bring me back is realizing that the “flaws” I saw weren’t uniquely “frum people” flaws but human flaws.
The secular world has plenty of flaws too… People are people and no one is perfect. I’ve learned to become less judgmental. Also I wasn’t very happy not being frum. I’d read books that said to meditate. I don’t know how to meditate but I know how to daven. The books say express gratitude - well of course that’s a Jewish concept - hakaras ha tov and being Sameach b”chelko.
There was nothing I found outside I didn’t have already have access to inside.

amother

Snowdrop

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 9:56 pm

Repeating some of the questions above....

1. How old were you when you went old?

2. What made you go old?

3. What made you come back?

My personal opinion is that teenagers go otd because they get in the wrong crowd . They think it's cool to do this or that and end up old.

Adults (25+) go otd because there are to many unanswerable questions. Or at least questions that have weak answers.

amother

Almond

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 9:56 pm

amother OP wrote:

What about being frum gives you happiness?
How did your family react? Did they continue to keep a relationship with you?

amother

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 10:15 pm

amother Olive wrote:

What do you feel and think about Hashem?

My thoughts about H’ are different than they once were. Before, I was probably one of the worst kinds of people. I was so “frum” but SO judgmental, all in the name of H’. Sometimes I think maybe I went through this to prove from perkei Avos “don’t trust in yourself until the day you die”. I learned not to trust myself and also not to judge others. I feel and think now that H’ isn’t as black and white as I once thought. That He understands nuance.

amother

Scarlet

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 10:21 pm

amother Daffodil wrote:

I’m so curious about this too

amother

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 10:26 pm

amother Daffodil wrote:

I don’t think unconditional love has to mean fancy dinners or trips etc. To me it means sitting at your shabbos table as you are with as much warmth and good energy from your parents as they’d give any of their other children. I know it’s not easy and I know parents are in pain. I don’t think no rules or boundaries is ever a good idea and can be harmful in the long run - but of course every situation is different and should be evaluated as so.

amother

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 10:36 pm

amother Mauve wrote:

Any tips for those of us watching our children make the same devastating (initial) choice to help them return like you did?

Be kind to them. Be someone they are comfortable to talk to and open up to without fear of getting in trouble. And make sure rules about safety and rules about frumkeit are clear and separate. I know so many people who start to go off and don’t really know the difference between what’s against halacha and what is not actually safe. Ie. non kosher vs. drugs. if you grow up with a message that eating non-kosher is poisoning your body the jump
to doing drugs isn’t that far off. Same with holding hands with a boy or having relations.

amother

Peru

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 10:45 pm

Mindfully wrote:

Please excuse me asking but I am trying to understand. Do you have a mental health issue, diagnosis or low self esteem?

that didnt sound nice

amother

Almond

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 10:45 pm

Mindfully wrote:

Please excuse me asking but I am trying to understand. Do you have a mental health issue, diagnosis or low self esteem?

Um what? Why would you ask this?