A Question for Obama's Supporters

red sea

Sun, Jul 27 2008, 12:25 pm

All religion aside - I just really want to understand as an American how you are at peace with 2 things:

1) not saluting the flag

and even moreso

2) not pledge allegiance

btMOMtoFFBs

Sun, Jul 27 2008, 3:11 pm

May I add another question. How can you feel comfortable voting for someone with 156 days (yes DAYS!) of national government experience in the Senate. Yes, he may be a good orator with good ideas, but so are TONS of people - think of all the synicated columnists or radio talk show hosts you like.

How can you reckon with his TOTAL inexperience?

chaylizi

Sun, Jul 27 2008, 3:14 pm

red sea wrote:

All religion aside - I just really want to understand as an American how you are at peace with 2 things:

1) not saluting the flag

and even moreso

2) not pledge allegiance

do you routinely salute the flag or pledge allegience? I don't spend too much time making gestures of loyalty to pieces of material. btw, I don't support either of them. I have not a clue in the world how to vote. maybe ralph nader... or dr doolittle

mimivan

Sun, Jul 27 2008, 5:51 pm

Red Sea...I'm not an Obama supporter..but I have to say something.
sitting in E.Y, the flag and the pledge are the least of my worries.
What is this guy going to do about Iran? That's all I care about.
Sorry that I have a one-track mind..but when people use expressions like "second Shoah" chas v'shalom, it is very difficult to care about much else... Wink

btMOMtoFFBs

Sun, Jul 27 2008, 6:51 pm

The Yeshiva I work in, and where my kids go says the pledge every day. I am so proud of them. There is good reason for us to have Hakaros HaTov to this wonderful place. I thank G-d for being born here all the time.

If Obama can't bring himself to overcome his own hate - despite having enjoyed all the best this country can offer to him and his wife: six figure income, ivy league education, success in career and politics, then What's his problem?

Nevertheless, Mimi of course you have a point, he could mindlessly say the pledge and still be weak with regards to Iran and protecting Israel.

I'll bet you all a silver dollar that he says the pledge and wears a flag pin as he tries to appear more centrist in the last months before the election. What a flip flopper.

fish123

Sun, Jul 27 2008, 7:55 pm

That wasn't the pledge of allegiance, it was the national anthem.

Re Iran: Obama advocates using diplomacy with Iran before military force though he did not rule out the use of the military should it come to that. You may not agree with it but the Bush administration is now moving towards that very same goal of direct negotiations with Iran.

red sea

Sun, Jul 27 2008, 8:35 pm

Ok, I shoulda said all religion & mid-east aside.

mumoo

Sun, Jul 27 2008, 8:37 pm

chaylizi wrote:

... or dr doolittle

excellent. I didn't even know he was running. he's getting my vote

Tzippora

Sun, Jul 27 2008, 10:05 pm

My view of the candidates is much more nuanced than supporting one or the other.

That said, I am much more confident that Obama understands the COMPLEXITY of international relations. He is being painted as "soft" due to a stereotype the Republicans have pinned on Democrats for the last 30 years or so. However, the fact is that John McCain doesn't seem to know, care, or understand much about the sheer numbers of factions of Arabs, much less how to motivate and encourage them to stop killing one another and most importantly, other people. When John McCain starts talking about an army base in Iraq, he completely forgets that Osama bin Ladin's casus belli was the presence of US bases in Saudi Arabia.

Obama has shown an ability to understand the situation before jumping into an action that may or may not have millions of unintended consequences.

Interesting article, for anyone interested:

http://www.slate.com/id/2195865/

TziporahD

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 1:36 am

red sea wrote:

All religion aside - I just really want to understand as an American how you are at peace with 2 things:

1) not saluting the flag

and even moreso

2) not pledge allegiance

I am not an Obama supporter, but he salutes the flag and says the pledge of allegiance.
From Snopes

Regardless, I would not base my vote on whether a politician says the pledge of allegiance.

Akeres Habayis

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 2:02 am

ok

I cant believe u guys STILL dont know the facts shock

thanks tzipora and tzipora D for that info,whether,anyone will read it and erase their opinion about his stance of the pledge of allegiance Confused

,or Iran

.

I'm always astounded by the uninformed in reference to the politicians.

do u know before Bush was elected,Texas state was considered the worse economically,thru out his whole term as governor?

do u know Bill Clinton had ZERO experience in international affairs??

the problem w/McCain is he will continue to the SAME agenda as Bush,why do u think it took the Republican party so long to get on board???
McCain also has NO IDEA about any social economic group but his own,the very Rich.he has never been in contact w/middle america and for sure not the poor.ok so his beauty queen/multi billionaire/heiress of a beer company wife goes to 3rdword countries to help feed the hungry....what about giving to this country???

do the research ladies BEFORE u make statements that have been proven false.

mimivan

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 2:46 am

red sea wrote:

Ok, I shoulda said all religion & mid-east aside.

mid east aside????

Last edited by mimivan on Mon, Jul 28 2008, 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total

btMOMtoFFBs

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 7:23 am

Akeres Habayis wrote:

ok

I cant believe u guys STILL dont know the facts shock

thanks tzipora and tzipora D for that info,whether,anyone will read it and erase their opinion about his stance of the pledge of allegiance Confused

,or Iran

Akeres, believe me, Bill Clinton's total INEXPERIENCE in int'l affairs was blatanly obvious - believe me. His love affair with Yassir Arafat (and Monica Lewinsky) and ignorance of the terrorist threat is what has this country in the situation its in today. Imagine if he went after Bin Ladin 15 years ago when US ships were attacked by Al Qaeda in Somalia. No he sent some missiles into the empty Afghan desert to divert attention from his own personal affair with an almost teenage girl in the White House. Maybe if he would have been more experienced in Int'l Affairs and less focused on his own *affairs* we would be in a different place with the terrorists today.

I am afraid for how the effect of total inexperience will be multiplied for a national political newbie like Obama.

Let's face it, terrorists have been a little afraid to try anything under "W" because they know he will fight back. (See how they work in Israel, when they know the Israeli gov't doesn't really fight back).

How do you think terrorists will test president Obama? I shudder to think about it. They consider him a Muslim, one of their own. He does have a muslim dad and was educated in Madrassa schools as a child even if he considers himself a Xtian - muslims all over the world will be dancing in the streets when one of their own is elected here, I cringe thinking about it.

As for McCain. More than twenty years serving in the Senate seems like mighty sound domestic poliitical experience to me! I have complete confidence that he is aware of the needs of the middle class. I have complete confidence that he wants to keep me and my family safe and economically successful. Too bad he gets very little press coverage as the major media fawn over Obama and practically ignore a man of tremendous dignity, class and integrity like John McCain.

red sea

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 8:56 am

Akeres, I still dont know the facts, thats why I brought this up. (Nobody is ever going to with our media but thats besides the point, what percent of what you hear is really given over straight forwardly?)

Mimivan, for America thats not the only issue with elections obviously even if many care a lot. I personally think 50-50 that Israel will be better off w/o American pressure. Then they can do what is best for Israel. What has having such a close ally in the US president until now accomplished?

I would add a poll - how many would rather vote in dr doolittle than any of the other pres candidates? I think he would win. I think if all the voters in this election that did not at all care much for either candidte placed their votes all in one basket, they would win.

gryp

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 9:17 am

I don't care for Obama or McCain. I'll vote in Moshiach, if that's okay.

HindaRochel

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 9:18 am

GR,

I think we should all vote for Moshiach, by our actions of course.
However, in the USA elections I'm going McCain, at least at this point.

Tzippora

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 7:29 pm

BTMom - having worked in Congress, I can tell you that it teaches you nothing but how to navigate Congress. Nothing about the constituents, even in the House - in the Senate, when you're dealing with a state, and not a small district, that is amplified.

Moreover, Bush's foreign policy, while more belligerent than Clinton's overall, is even more ineffectual. Why is that any better?

Muslims do not consider Obama one of their own - there is even an argument in Muslim theology that he is chayav misa - he converted to Christianity!

Any more inanities? Anyone?

Barbara

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 8:22 pm

Akeres Habayis wrote:

ok

I cant believe u guys STILL dont know the facts shock

thanks tzipora and tzipora D for that info,whether,anyone will read it and erase their opinion about his stance of the pledge of allegiance Confused

,or Iran

Piggybacking on this post ...

McCain's repeated misstatements with respect to recent history as well as geo-political facts (Czechoslavakia???? Mixing up Iraq and Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan, Shia and Sunni Muslims? And when exactly was that surge in Iraq?) scare the dickens out of me.

Obama wasn't my first pick, either. Nonetheless, the sheer amount of misinformation, including pure and unadulterated racism, that people spread about this man forces me to defend him. Obama is not now, and has never been, a Muslim (although his father was a lapsed Muslim). For heavens sake, given the whole (and at least partially justified IMHO) brouhaha over the Rev Wright, don't you think he would have taken any way out -- including saying he was a Muslim -- that he could? Moreover, people use his middle name --as if he had any control over what he was named -- to scare people. Shouldn't we have gotten over that in 3rd grade??? And, as stated elsewhere, Obama hasn't refused to salute the flag.

As to Israel, in addition to other disastrous foreign policies that have adversely impacted upon Israel, remember that the Republicans (as in Bush) have called for the end of Israel's *occupation* that began in 1967 (which he claimed didn't include Jerusalem, but was almost certainly understood by the Arabs to do so), and for a contiguous Palestinian state. See, eg, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22587081/

All of us in the US need to cast our votes based upon our evaluation of the facts, not viral emails containing distortions or lies. Then, whatever our decisions, we can feel good about them.

soldat

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 8:32 pm

Moses for president!
http://www.chabad.org/generic_.....t.htm

queen

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 9:09 pm

Does no one mind that he's black....... and has Moslem family??????