A Question for Obama's Supporters

momof6

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 9:17 pm

I'm not an Obama supporter, but who cares what color his skin is!

Barbara

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 9:19 pm

queen wrote:

Does no one mind that he's black....... and has Moslem family??????

Can we assume that when Joe Lieberman was running, you didn't mind when people said *does no one mind that he's a Jew?????*

No, it doesn't bother me one bit that he's black, or that there are members of his family that are Moslem. I judge him -- positively or negatively -- based on his views and ideas, period.

soldat

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 9:25 pm

couldn't care less that he's black - I'd vote for condaleeza if she were running.
I care that Hammas likes him.

gryp

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 10:20 pm

There are obviously things that bother some of us but not others.

If the Rev Wright matter doesn't bother you, that's fine, but it bothers me.
If his Muslim background doesn't bother you, that's fine, but it bothers me.
If his liberal voting record doesn't bother you, that's fine, but it bothers me.
If it doesn't bother you that every anti-semitic wacko supports him, that's fine, but it's a huge red flag to me.

And that's really all there is to it.

flowerpower

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 10:21 pm

It bothers me that he is one big fat liar!

TziporahD

Mon, Jul 28 2008, 11:55 pm

queen wrote:

Does no one mind that he's black....... and has Moslem family??????

Why would any reasonable person mind that he is black?

HindaRochel

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 12:57 am

[quote="GR"]There are obviously things that bother some of us but not others.

Quote:

If the Rev Wright matter doesn't bother you, that's fine, but it bothers me.

Bothers me quite a bit. Especially his "OH wow, he is racist! I just didn't know!" throw him under the bus.
He just keeps throwing people under the bus.

Quote:

If his Muslim background doesn't bother you, that's fine, but it bothers me.

Not only don't I care if he has a Muslim background, I would not have minded if he had annouced that he was or had been a Muslim. If he now states it then I would know he is, once again, lying.

Quote:

If his liberal voting record doesn't bother you, that's fine, but it bothers me.

Some of his votes do bother me, quite a bit. His refusal to support the born alive act, which maintain only that a child born alive, no matter how it was born alive, would be entitled to be treated as human, and given humane care, bothers me in the extreme. I do not care if the child had no chance of survival; treat the child as human. That is all the act required.

And that goes to character. And that is important.

Quote:

If it doesn't bother you that every anti-semitic wacko supports him, that's fine, but it's a huge red flag to me.

Muchly. Huge factor.
I don't think Obama could affect Israel as I believe that is in the hands of Jews; if we are behaving properly then no one can come against us. But I have family in the USA and I fear for my family and friends.

I am also bothered by his willingness to have a fully armed national civilian force, armed and paid for to the same degree as the army.

His first stating he was against the overturning of the gun ban in Washington, then stating, after it was a done deal, that he was for it. (From his own lips).

His constant changing his position.

His refusal to see wounded soldiers in Germany. No it wasn't the center's or army's fault. They told him he could go in but without his entourage. And no it wasn't his staffs fault. Take the blame and be a man.

His statements here in Israel.

His "Jerusalem shouldn't be divided, well that's up to the parties well I misspoke"

His for against the surge.

His "Too know Obama is to love Obama" statement.

His appearance, twice now, speaking before a large audience that had originally gathered to hear a concert.

His ego.

His "he can do no wrong" supporters who are practically lapping at his feet.

Charismatic leaders scare me, and while we would want someone with a bit of punch I don't want someone who inspires lemmings.

Tzippora

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 6:56 am

First of all, I'd like to note that I'm surprised by the racist scum appearing on this thread.

Second of all - I've thought a great deal about the Reverend Wright issue. Yes, Wright is disgusting, but I honestly get it. I have heard rabbonim say disgusting things - just as disgusting, mind you - and I have not heard any outcry from their community. I have myself in certain situations stuck with a rabbi who had said things like this in my presence, believing the good I got from them was worth putting up with any hate or nonsense they were spewing. We all do that, and if we think we don't, it's because our views have not been exposed for wider scrutiny. When we say, for example, that non jews do not have neshamos (a mild example, something barely anyone would argue with) that is something that would play just as badly on national TV as Wright did. Same goes for the trend of calling the outside world Sodom and Gomora. That doesn't even cover things that are actually inflammatory, like some of the anti-[gentile] rhetoric I've heard. "non jews don't have what could be called marriage - that's why we say bayis neeman b'yisroel" (At my own sheva brachos, no less!)

If I weren't religious, I wouldn't get it. But I am, so I do. Anyone who is religious and claims otherwise is being dishonest.

What are you talking about appearing before a crowd that gathered for a concert? In Germany? Heck no.

A lot of your issues with Obama come from the fact that you are not listening to his statements. You might hear soundbites, etc, but you aren't taking the time to listen to what he is saying. He is a law scholar - and it shows in the way his positions are individually documented and backed up. Moreover, it shows in some of the things you are taking issue with. The "Born Alive" act had legal implications on abortion rights, and yes, he is pro-choice. He stated as much at the time. You cannot take one aspect of a bill, say he voted against it, when really the motivation is something completely different

His stance on gun rights is constitutional as well.

I have a great respect for the fact that he is an academic - it is something that appeals to me greatly. If you do not take the time to be intelligent and listen to full paragraphs, you are going to miss his ACTUAL stance. But it just makes you look bad.

Akeres Habayis

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 8:34 am

queen,I will stay far away from u!
I have never heard blatant racism in my life,until I have come on imamother.

I resent your statement,it would be great if the mod will take out the racism that is clearly displayed on this site.

maybe I should just put u with all the uneducated hillbilly redneck KKK who hates anything different than them.but then they wouldn't accept u bc u are a....jew.
go figure

of course those that know me,know that I am Twisted Evil

HindaRochel

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 9:32 am

[quote="Tzippora"]

Quote:

Second of all - I've thought a great deal about the Reverend Wright issue. Yes, Wright is disgusting, but I honestly get it. I have heard rabbonim say disgusting things - just as disgusting, mind you - and I have not heard any outcry from their community. I have myself in certain situations stuck with a rabbi who had said things like this in my presence, believing the good I got from them was worth putting up with any hate or nonsense they were spewing. We all do that, and if we think we don't, it's because our views have not been exposed for wider scrutiny. When we say, for example, that non jews do not have neshamos (a mild example, something barely anyone would argue with) that is something that would play just as badly on national TV as Wright did. Same goes for the trend of calling the outside world Sodom and Gomora. That doesn't even cover things that are actually inflammatory, like some of the anti-[gentile] rhetoric I've heard. "non jews don't have what could be called marriage - that's why we say bayis neeman b'yisroel" (At my own sheva brachos, no less!)

Well maybe you would stick with such a Rav but I wouldn't. And then to lie and state that he never heard his spiritual leaders narishkeit, sorry. I'm not buying it, or him.

Quote:

If I weren't religious, I wouldn't get it. But I am, so I do. Anyone who is religious and claims otherwise is being dishonest.

Maybe you get it but I don't and I'm not lying. That is not the Rebbeim that I surround myself with or deal with. NO RABBI I have made "MY Rav" has stated anything near that. I disassociate myself as much as possible with those who espouse rabid hatred.

Quote:

What are you talking about appearing before a crowd that gathered for a concert? In Germany? Heck no

.

Um, yes. There was a concert before or after he spoke, I am not sure which, and yes in Germany. Press didn't talk about it.

Quote:

A lot of your issues with Obama come from the fact that you are not listening to his statements. You might hear soundbites, etc, but you aren't taking the time to listen to what he is saying. He is a law scholar - and it shows in the way his positions are individually documented and backed up. Moreover, it shows in some of the things you are taking issue with. The "Born Alive" act had legal implications on abortion rights, and yes, he is pro-choice. He stated as much at the time. You cannot take one aspect of a bill, say he voted against it, when really the motivation is something completely different

I listened and I read. I read the law in question. In no way would it interfere with abortion. It hasn't interfered with abortion now, as it is now the law of the country.

Quote:

His stance on gun rights is constitutional as well.

His stance changed. I heard what he said, and he changed his stance. He now agrees with the Supreme Court that the gun ban is constitutional, he was for the ban prior to that.

Quote:

I have a great respect for the fact that he is an academic - it is something that appeals to me greatly. If you do not take the time to be intelligent and listen to full paragraphs, you are going to miss his ACTUAL stance. But it just makes you look bad.

And I heard him, and I resent your implication that I'm stupid and can neither read or listen. There are many intelliegent women on this list; you are not the only one with brains.
What a disrespectful stance you are taking. Because I find him decitful, you assume I did not read or listen as carefully as you. What hubris, what gall.

I read. I listened. I compared. I found him wanting. Quite wanting.

I agree with Akeres Habayit that regarding that paraticular poster. But most posters here have not said anything about his race or his religion, though one or two mentioned their concerns with his Muslim connections. I specifically stated that neither his color nor his race matters. His dissimulation does. His narcissism does.

YOU are also being prejudicial. We do not have to fall over ourselves and love his words because you think he is an academic and therefore worthy of our vote. He is a schemer and a liar and too inexperienced for this job.
That is my opinion.

gryp

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:13 am

HindaRochel, you beat me to it. Wink

Nice, complete, post.

And it seems like queen hasn't finished her sentence. I wonder what she really meant by that. It seems very unlikely to me that queen fits the insults people have slathered at her without hearing what she really has to say.
The only thing that bothers me about Obama being of a certain minority is that you automatically get accused of being racist if you don't support him for any reason whatsoever.
I wouldn't vote for Cond. Rice either, though. Because she has proven herself to be inexperienced, ineffective, and flip-flopped on her views on Israel too.

If I hadn't made up my mind yet though about Obama, that picture of him in the West Bank shaking hands would have made it up for me. That picture gave me the creeps.

HindaRochel

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:18 am

(Queen's comment was quite racist. I do hope that if she was misunderstood she should state what she meant and clarify the issue. I do think that many of those who are supporters use the "race" card inappropraitely. That isn't related to his race however, but prejudice, both "regular" and "reverse" and the progress we haven't yet made towards becoming a race neutral society. I don't know if I would catagorize our progress as a world in terms of race slow or not...that is another discussion).

I would vote for Dr. Frances Rice, who is also a Republican. She also served in the armed forces, but I forget which section. She is intelligent, kind of the iron fist in a velvet glove type. I heard her speak and was blown away by her intelligence and command.

Last edited by HindaRochel on Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total

Clarissa

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:20 am

Excuse me, but did I misunderstand the subject line of this thread? Is everybody here really an Obama supporter? Because I'm surprised that some who responded here would describe themselves this way, but I guess you never can tell. To me, it looks like the same Obama-is-a-slimy-Muslim people are posting here that post in all the political threads, and aren't saying anything new at all.

Anybody want to start another thread? Maybe I'll start one entitled, "Pineapple on your pizza -- do you love it, because I hear Obama orders it that way." Then I can read all of the fresh new ideas about how he's really a Moslem with a racist minister.

freidasima

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:23 am

Enough narishkeit.
One of the biggest strikes against Obama is his wishy washy stance on many issues and his lack of experience.

He has good scriptwriters and he is definitely intelligent but when he has to speak off the cuff...forget it.

cookielady

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:24 am

Clarissa wrote:

Anybody want to start another thread? Maybe I'll start one entitled, "Pineapple on your pizza -- do you love it, because I hear Obama orders it that way." Then I can read all of the fresh new ideas about how he's really a Moslem with a racist minister.

FYI. I like pineapple on my pizza.

Clarissa

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:24 am

I've only known two politicians (and one just barely) in my lifetime who were able to speak off the cuff brilliantly. JFK and Bill Clinton. Otherwise, they all need to be scripted. It reminds me of a famous line of Johnny Carson's that I don't think I can post here.

HindaRochel

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:27 am

I see. SO only Obama supporters were allowed to respond? Didn't remember reading that rule. For that you need a sub forum.

Clarissa

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:31 am

Okay, McCain supporters should post here, if they have anything even the tiniest bit enlightening to say. But giving Thumbs Up

and

to eachother after the fifteenth post about him being a Muslim (tired urban legend, or maybe it's not so urban) and being phony (because all politicians are so real) is as boring as the 100th Thumbs Up

about the fact that every Arab in the world wants to decapitate us. You know what? I agree with everything Barbara is posting, but she's saying it really well, and in a new way. I don't need to go over there to nod my little emoticon head every five minutes in a thread that has invited McCain supporters to post.

flowerpower

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:32 am

The thing with Obama is that he's a good speaker and after hearing his speeches people get turned on by him and think he's the one.

Clarissa

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:33 am

cookielady wrote:

FYI. I like pineapple on my pizza.

So does my nine year old. I've come to love it, too, especially if it's with really good mozzarella. So glad we can speak so peacefully, She of the Cookies.