A Question for Obama's Supporters

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cookielady

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:36 am

my dd does greet me by saying "Peace onto you, oh mother!"

Clarissa

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:37 am

Either you're kidding, or you have the most adorable kid ever, or your kid has been watching too many old episodes of Mr. Spock on "Star Trek."

gryp

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:41 am

I would not have commented at all except there were some snippity posts about how dumb and thoughtless Obama non-supporters are.

Last edited by gryp on Tue, Jul 29 2008, 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

Clarissa

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:48 am

I haven't posted in the thread entitled "for McCain supporters," because I figured it was for supporters to discuss their concerns or honest thoughts, without me jumping in to insult their candidate. I originally didn't even post in this thread, because I don't consider myself an Obama supporter in the sense I assumed OP meant.

When I post a thread entitled, "Thread for those who listen to secular music," I assume that those who think secular music is evil won't post there, and make people less at ease for discussing it. That doesn't mean people aren't allowed to post there, but I make it clear what the purpose is. That's what I assumed about the McCain thread, and why I didn't even bother to read it, initially.

Of course, it's a free country and everyone can post where they want. It's a message board, so I hope people will try to keep things lively by expressing ideas that are interesting to read, and are not just about giving other people

for their points of view, without really adding anything new. I post on another board where thumbs up posts are deleted and posters warned, because they want to make it a really interesting read.

At any rate, I'd love to hear from any fellow Democrats (or people who are open to voting for Democrats) to hear what they think about Obama, honestly and without any defensiveness. Feel free to PM me, as I'm ruminating about this election a lot and would love to hear what others think.

freidasima

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:50 am

Someone said tme the other day here that the democrats in America have to choose whether they were more ready for a black president or for a woman president....and that America is ready for neither. I don't know if it is true, it's just something that someone said to me today...and it happens to be someone involved in Israeli politics...

Clarissa

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:52 am

As far as the issue of black vs. female, at some point we'll look back at these discussions or distinctions and be shocked that these were ever concerns. It wasn't too long ago that blacks couldn't vote, women couldn't vote, people couldn't marry out of their own race, etc. Someday these things won't be part of the discussion. Of course, I'm no spring chicken, who knows if I'll live until that day, cluck cluck.

freidasima

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:53 am

Clarissa my geriatric friend, you are right, but we are still here and now and the same way America isn't ready for a Jewish president....it's not ready for a lot of things...yet...

Clarissa

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:56 am

I know. Sometimes I confess, that as a life-long Democrat, I just wish the Democrats would put forth a candidate who is electable. I actually respect Hillary Clinton in some ways, but was very unhappy to hear her announce her intentions to run, not because she's a woman but because of who she is and how people feel about her. The Democrats don't ever seem to care about electability. On the other hand, I wish everyone would ignore Obama's ethnicity, if that's what the concern is, and just look at him. So I understand what America isn't ready to do, but it bugs me. I know this was a convoluted post, but I have a toddler I'm ignoring, and he's not liking it.

Last edited by Clarissa on Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total

gryp

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 10:56 am

Quote:

Of course, it's a free country and everyone can post where they want. It's a message board, so I hope people will try to keep things lively by expressing ideas that are interesting to read, and are not just about giving other people for their points of view, without really adding anything new. I post on another board where thumbs up posts are deleted and posters warned, because they want to make it a really interesting read.

I don't post for fun or to win points. I post when I think I have something interesting to add to the discussion, like most other people.

Last edited by gryp on Tue, Jul 29 2008, 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

HindaRochel

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 11:29 am

Clarissa:
Three pages
Page 1
Mimivan made a smile and Akeres Habayit made smilies. Neither of them were making anti-Obama comments and both were stating their opinion on the comments of those who were anti Obama. Mimivan was speaking to the issue of using the idea of the Shoa constantly, and that it bothered her(though she is not an Obama supporter), and Akeres was shocked at people's lack of knowledge about Obama.

I made a thumbs up re GR's motion to vote for the Moshiach. I thought it rather amusing and valid. We do need to vote for the Moshiach imho, not on a ballot but with our words and deeds.

Barbara gave a thumbs up to Akeres's comments. She seems to like Obama.

Page 2
Akeres made devil faces

GR gave me a smile for my post. She stated some additional information, but liked what I said and how I said it.

Then you chimed in with your post about smiles and thumbs up.

My post wasn't about his being Muslim.
Few of the posts were.
Many of us are bothered by his mendacity. Most politicians put on a show; but kissing a snotty nose baby and telling mom how cute the baby is differs in the extreme, imho, from Obama's actions and words.
imho.

You think he doesn't lie that much, fine. But those who see him as dishonest are allowed to call him on it and we are certainly allowed to call him on it when others claim "but look at what he said here!" as if that were a reason to vote for him, and we have evidence to show that he is contradicting himself either by recent past speeches or actions.

Sorry. That isn't how it works.

You have made a rather false accusation. Go back and read the posts yourself. Your criticisms don't hold water.

Ad hominems, no matter how witty, are not arguments. Neither are guilt by associations. Or appeals to vanity or appeals to ridicule or straw men.

mom21n2

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 11:33 am

queen wrote:

Does no one mind that he's black....... and has Moslem family??????

Moses???

Crayon210

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 11:35 am

Moses was black and had Muslim family?

Clarissa

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 11:41 am

HindaRochel, maybe I should have been clear about this. I'm talking about what I've seen in my year on Imamother.

As several of my friends here know, I decided a while back that either I would take a break from Imamother until after the election, or I'd take a break from posting on any threads involving politics. I broke my promise.

I need to do some self-examination about why I come back for more, after I see how hopeless these discussions are.

HindaRochel

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 11:42 am

Moses was most likely much darker skinned than Europeans Jews; probably closer to Sephardim, possibly darker than Sephardim, but who knows really.

He didn't have a Muslim family though, he would, but he didn't then.

Crayon210

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 11:44 am

HindaRochel wrote:

So all the Jews would have been darker-skinned...

I don't get what the poster was trying to say.

HindaRochel

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 11:58 am

Crayon210 wrote:

HindaRochel wrote:

So all the Jews would have been darker-skinned...

I don't get what the poster was trying to say.

All the Jews of the time probably were darker skinned.
The poster was trying to show that race shouldn't make a difference, that if we would be bothered by Obama's black skin should we have been bothered by Moshe's black skin?

And if your point is that "but we have light skin so we should be bothered..." then that my dear is racism.

Skin color has nothing to do with how well a person could preform in any particular job. Religion might have an effect, but not the religion per se but how the person would apply their religious beliefs to the job at hand, in this case the presidency.

It is a possible concern that the Muslim nations may consider him an apostate, and would thus be more likely to target him for assassination; but I think we should not vote out of fear of what the other nations think, and whether or not they would approve of our choice. I don't care that the Europeans love him, it does bother me that Hamas does, but that isn't a grave concern, since they may very well be operating under a misapprehension of Obama's true beliefs. In short, while the concept that Obama could be a greater target because of his connections, these should not be our concerns as voters.

Vote for the person best fit for the job.

btMOMtoFFBs

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 12:22 pm

HindaRochel, you are so wonderfully clear and articulate. Thank you for taking the time and energy to post the very same things I (and many others, I'm sure) are thinking, but don't have the time, patience or energy to communicate.

(That's a verbal "thumbs up" btw!)

Akeres Habayis

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 12:40 pm

hinda rochel thanks for the quickread Wink

of what the pages discuss
btw
my angry faces was to the blatant racist statement made by queen
I found it repulsive,obviously she doesn't realize there are darkerskinned jews who are on imamothers Rolling Eyes

who would take serious offense to her comment.
moi

red sea

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 5:05 pm

Clarrissa I was actually wanting an answer from what I did write in the title, someone posted the snopes thing for me and I cant believe anyone cares that he is black. I certainly dont. But feel free to answer here cuz it is a thread to hear what his supporters have to say. The only thing that concerns me with minorities in elections is that people tend to forget to look past it. I remember when Dinkins was mayor & some of my black coworkers were smacking themselves for being so stupid & voting for him, and saying they will never make the mistake to only see the surface again.

Clarissa

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 5:25 pm

red sea, I appreciate what you're saying, and I'd decided to stay away from this thread, but I'm happy to respond to your post. I was going to do it privately by pm, but I decided to do it here, because I think you started this thread for a good reason.

Honestly, I know some Democrats who are very mixed about Obama, just as there are Republicans who are mixed about McCain. Somebody very close to me has been a lifelong Democrat, never voted Republican ever, but she's miserable about Obama being the Democratic candidate. I don't feel that way, but I understand her feelings, and I consider her very intelligent, so I look forward to hearing more about what she's thinking. I know where I'm leaning and where my husband is leaning (he's not as liberal as I, and not a Democrat) but I still have time to think about the issues and the differences between the two guys.

I agree that it's crazy to vote either for or against someone because of color or other unimportant factors. I understand the excitement generated by an AA candidate and the notion of our first black president, but this isn't a reason to vote for him. Nor is it a reason to vote against, certainly, as that would be racist and stupid. But I'll admit something -- I do get excited when I hear of Jews in positions of power here in the US, and I would be excited by the possibility of a Jewish president someday (who would hopefully do away with the White House x-mas tree once and for all) so I understand why some blacks and other minority members are energized about this election, if they are. For many, it's been a long-time dream in this country to have a person of color in the White House.

I was telling somebody here privately (now saying it publicly) that this election is different for me than the last couple. Honestly, I was astounded that anybody would support or vote for Bush. That possibility disappointed me on so many levels. I don't want to get into it, it's not important, but I still feel like him winning twice is a dream, and not a good one. I don't think I'll feel this way this time, no matter what happens. I don't love either of these guys, I like one more than the other, but I'm continuing to read and learn and am way behind on learning about issues. But if either of them wins, I won't be devastated, I won't wear a black armband (I did that as a kid after a particularly disappointing election) and I won't be as mystified as I was in the last two. Maybe I'll feel more strongly about one or the other in the coming months, and I'll get more worked up about it. Right now, the only things that work me up are some of the things that people say, and I really don't just mean here.

However it works out, I hope it works out for the best for everyone, in terms of what happens. As I said before, whoever the next president is, he'll be inheriting a mess to clean up, and it's huge and worldwide and I don't know how he'll do it.

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