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S/O can't wrap my head around intentional hitting thread
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amother
Red


 

Post Mon, Nov 20 2023, 8:42 am
amother Jetblack wrote:
Wow. Lots of judgment. They bathe together. I watch and supervise the entire time. For those of you who will tell me this is unsafe, it is safer than leaving one alone while I bathe the other.
I immediately caught baby. Baby didn't actually spend time under water. But toddler thought it was a funny trick. And is too young to understand why it is so bad. So yes, I potched. And toddler realized that this is not to be repeated.


If you watch & supervise the entire time, meaning you don't take eyes off for even a second, then it shouldn't be possible for toddler to be able to push baby's head in the water. There shouldn't be that much unsupervised time.
When I bathe my babies, once they're out of the baby bath stage, I basically sit bent in to the bathtub with my hands right near the baby.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Mon, Nov 20 2023, 8:49 am
amother Leaf wrote:
And as someone who has been hit too I can tell you that it makes zero difference. A potch is a potch.


Perhaps you've been lucky enough not to have been hurt so badly in your life that you understand that there is a HUGE difference. There is a HUGE difference between a light tap and a beating that leaves marks. There is a huge difference between calmly administered chinuch and an angry attack.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:00 am
amother Lemonlime wrote:
And it can also mean preparing a child for the present, right now. Sometimes children need to be taught that they CANT hurt another child and that there will be consequences if they do.


It doesn't mean that. Look up definitions of the word Chinuch - it's always about preparing a child for the future.
In the present, right now, you need to keep your kids safe, including one that is hurting another. And sure there can be consequences. The consequences don't have to be physically hurting the child so that he won't physically hurt someone else, which is not a long-term type of goal....it's a now stop-gap that doesn't really work, and creates long-term issues.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:04 am
amother Mistyrose wrote:
Perhaps you've been lucky enough not to have been hurt so badly in your life that you understand that there is a HUGE difference. There is a HUGE difference between a light tap and a beating that leaves marks. There is a huge difference between calmly administered chinuch and an angry attack.


I do think there's a difference between a light tap and a beating. But my own experience is that when parents hit, that line is often crossed.

When I was a teen, I was a counselor in a certain bungalow colony for the summer. I stayed in a bungalow that was underneath the living quarters of a family whose father was considered very well-respected, Talmid Chacham, etc...I'm sure he believed that he was being mechanech his kids in the most appropriate way.
I remember the day his 9 year old went off to play with friends and didn't come home to help her mother when she was supposed to. I remember the sound of the stinging slaps she got from him when she came home. I remember the sound of her crying. I remember how we teens looked at each other silently, and I'm pretty sure all of us were affected in the same way. Because that was not chinuch, sorry.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:11 am
Chayalle wrote:
I do think there's a difference between a light tap and a beating. But my own experience is that when parents hit, that line is often crossed.

When I was a teen, I was a counselor in a certain bungalow colony for the summer. I stayed in a bungalow that was underneath the living quarters of a family whose father was considered very well-respected, Talmid Chacham, etc...I'm sure he believed that he was being mechanech his kids in the most appropriate way.
I remember the day his 9 year old went off to play with friends and didn't come home to help her mother when she was supposed to. I remember the sound of the stinging slaps she got from him when she came home. I remember the sound of her crying. I remember how we teens looked at each other silently, and I'm pretty sure all of us were affected in the same way. Because that was not chinuch, sorry.


Of course, and that is one of the many reasons why I don't believe in hitting or potching AT ALL. But that's me as someone who struggles with their temper - I know I have to draw a hard line for myself.

But even though I don't believe in potching as chinuch, I would never try to say that there is no difference between a light potch from a calm parent and an angry beating. As you say, it's of course different.
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amother
Lemonlime


 

Post Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:29 am
Chayalle wrote:
It doesn't mean that. Look up definitions of the word Chinuch - it's always about preparing a child for the future.
In the present, right now, you need to keep your kids safe, including one that is hurting another. And sure there can be consequences. The consequences don't have to be physically hurting the child so that he won't physically hurt someone else, which is not a long-term type of goal....it's a now stop-gap that doesn't really work, and creates long-term issues.

I specifically said that it is not always about chinuch. Sometimes the child needs to stopped, RIGHT NOW, from dangerous behavior or hurting another child. (My five year old ran into the street. I potched her very lightly. Sorry not sorry). I dont think she'll be running into the street when she is twenty, so it was not necessarily about chinuch. It was about safety.

Also, my experience, and the experience of my friends has been, that whenever our children are being badly bullied, the parents ALWAYS did not believe in punishments or potches. Perhaps that was just a coincidence that happened multiple times to both my friends and me, that's possible. But that has been our experience.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:48 am
amother Lemonlime wrote:
I specifically said that it is not always about chinuch. Sometimes the child needs to stopped, RIGHT NOW, from dangerous behavior or hurting another child. (My five year old ran into the street. I potched her very lightly. Sorry not sorry). I dont think she'll be running into the street when she is twenty, so it was not necessarily about chinuch. It was about safety.

Also, my experience, and the experience of my friends has been, that whenever our children are being badly bullied, the parents ALWAYS did not believe in punishments or potches. Perhaps that was just a coincidence that happened multiple times to both my friends and me, that's possible. But that has been our experience.


That's a correlation does NOT equal causation type of thing...I would say it's not about potching but about discipline and boundaries. I wasn't into hitting my kids, but we most definitely had house rules, boundaries, discipline, time-out when needed, etc....those kids likely were not PARENTED.

My DD is the girl in the class who invited the girl who was excluded by some in the class, along with her two best friends, for a sleepover the night of their class graduation trip. And then sat with that girl as her partner for the whole trip.
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amother
Cherry


 

Post Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:52 am
amother Jetblack wrote:
My toddler pushed my baby under the bath water. Does that warrant a potch?


No it does not. The toddler is not old enough to understand what was wrong or what safe behavior in a bath looks like. It's not an age appropriate responsibility to put on the toddler.
Either bathe them separately or watch them like a hawk
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amother
Lemonlime


 

Post Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:55 am
Chayalle wrote:
That's a correlation does NOT equal causation type of thing...I would say it's not about potching but about discipline and boundaries. I wasn't into hitting my kids, but we most definitely had house rules, boundaries, discipline, time-out when needed, etc....those kids likely were not PARENTED.

My DD is the girl in the class who invited the girl who was excluded by some in the class, along with her two best friends, for a sleepover the night of their class graduation trip. And then sat with that girl as her partner for the whole trip.

This is not a correct assumption. Every single one of the parents I am speaking of were super into parenting methods or actively into parenting courses... it is very possible they were applying it wrong. Or their kids had issues that were not solvable by parenting courses.... But they were definitely parenting. If anything, I would call them super parents.

I am not chas vsholom saying there is anything wrong with your parenting methods and I'm sure you have awesome kids (must take after their mother...)
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