Sooooo, do YOU use plastic, throwaway plates?????

ChossidMom

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 7:51 am

Here is an article by Jonathan Rosenblum in Mishapacha. Food for thought:

Think Green

Mishpacha, 30 July 2008

Plastic does not degenerate and is difficult to recycle. Given worlds enough and time, the planet will eventually be overrun by plastic.

Is worrying about such matters an indication of a mind addled by having seen too many exhibits at the Monterey Aquarium last summer of different species endangered by rampant pollution? Or are these legitimate Torah concerns?

The convenience of using plastic dishes are obvious. Plastic offers freedom from sinks brimming with unwashed dishes and fights about whose turn it is to wash the dishes. Against the convenience is the infinitesimal impact any change in our individual behavior would have absent similar changes by millions of others.

Here we come to an old problem in moral philosophy known as the Tragedy of the Commons. Let us say there are a variety of shepherds sharing a common grazing area. It is in the interest of each shepherd to increase the size of his herd. But if each shepherd follows that strategy the common grazing area will eventually be depleted bringing disaster to all.

Another example. The most rational strategy for an individual parent would be not to vaccinate his child to protect against the slight chance of serious adverse reaction. But that is true only so long as all other parents vaccinate. But if other parents make the same calculation, smallpox and whooping cough will soon return and pose a far greater threat to every child.

In short, if each person pursues his own rational short-term interest, the result can be long-term disaster for all.

Environmental consciousness is not yet high on the chareidi educational agenda. Part of the reason lies in the anti-human bias that permeates so much of the secular environmental movement and the nonsense perpetrated in the name of environmentalism. The United States is currently foregoing drilling for ten billion barrels of oil on .01% of the Artic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska. It has chosen, at the behest of environmentalists, to send the money for those ten billion barrels money to foreign supporters of international terrorism rather than disturb a couple of moose.

And yet the Torah does charge us to be guardians of Hashem's world: "When Hakadosh Boruch Hu created Adam HaRishon, He took him and showed him all the trees in Gan Eden and said to him: 'See My works, how pleasant and beautiful they are… . Make sure that you do not ruin and destroy My world, for if you ruin it, no-one will repair it after you'" (Koheles Rabba, 91 [13].) A recent volume entitled Hasviva B'halacha Ve'machshava, published by the Sviva Yisrael organization demonstrates that environmental concerns are dealt with extensively in the halachic literature. The greatest of poskim wrestled with issues such as whether, and under what circumstances, it is permissible to cut down a tree. In the Chasam Sofer (II:120) we find a strong presumption in favor of preserving natural resources like trees, even if it means uprooting and replanting them elsewhere.

Apart from the pure halachic considerations, a serious consideration of the future consequences of our actions on the environment is part and parcel of a Torah worldview. As Torah Jews, who worry not only about the World to Come but about the world that we will leave to our children, our orientation is towards the future.

The late Rabbi Moshe Sherer liked to point out that the word metzachek, in the present tense, hints to the cardinal sins (Rashi to Bereishis 21:9). Yet the same root, in the future tense, forms the name of Yitzchak Avinu. Teaching our children to contemplate the future is thus part of instilling a proper Torah perspective.( Not by accident was UTJ's Rabbi Moshe Gafni voted the most environmentally concerned MK.)

Environmental consciousness also makes us aware of the cumulative impact of many small acts for good or bad. When Sviva Israel makes its presentations in chareidi schools, the children are fascinated to learn what a large environmental "footprint" each of them leaves.

Learning to contemplate the cumulative effect of small actions has implications, both mundane and sublime.

Anyone who has ever worked their way out of overdraft or managed to lose five kilos will tell you that the process starts with dozens of little decisions –– withstanding an importunate teenager's demand for a cell phone, cutting back on cigarettes, foregoing a bottle of soda for the Shabbos table, or washing dishes instead of using plastic.

And so it is with any improvement in our middos. Small actions are the key to personal transformation. Reaching into one's pocket a thousand times in response to the outstretched hand, writes the Rambam, does more to turn a person into a giver than writing a single check for the same amount. In the same vein, the ba'alei mussar counsel that spiritual aliyah should take place in small, incremental steps rather than by leaps and bounds.

The key to how alive we are as Torah Jews is the significance that we attach to the most commonly repeated acts –– to every beracha and the most commonly performed mitzvah. As Rabbi Chaim Volozhin stresses, even the smallest actions hold the potential to open up pipelines of Divine blessing to the world or its opposite. We do not serve in order to receive a prize for ourselves, Rav Chaim writes (Ruach HaChaim I:3), but we do seek that each of our actions should open up conduits of blessing to the world.

Instilling in ourselves a consciousness of the significance of seemingly small actions, then, is part not only of natural ecology, but of our spiritual ecology as well.

Does this mean that the Rosenblum family will be giving up all plasticware? Not necessarily. As one of the contributors to Hasviva B'halacha Ve'machshava points out: Getting rid of plastic can be good for the environment but bad for your marriage. Still I hope that a few more dishes will get washed , being careful to turn off the tap between each dish, of course – even if I'm the one doing the washing.

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Tamiri

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 8:28 am

We really did drop our disposable tablewear consumption by about 99% since we came to Israel. We use it only for birthday parties and major group-entertaining. I need a dishwasher.

yo'ma

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 8:32 am

I only use plastic when I have a lot of company and don't have enough dishes and don't want to wash that much anyway Wink

, don't feel well, or after everything is ready for shabbos and the kids want something to eat Mad

Aidelmom

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 8:36 am

Yup . As soon as I buy a dishwasher b'n I'll stop using plastic altogether (I do use mostly nondisposables though) Wink

(except for cups. For some reason I can't stand drinking from real cups)

Last edited by Aidelmom on Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total

Clarissa

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 8:54 am

I'm the cheapest person in the world. We sometimes use paper plates, not plastic, and I obviously do toss those. But when I use plastic utensils, I wash them, because I'm cheap and environmentally aware. My husband will say, "But that's the whole reason we used plastic!"

The only time I toss them is on those rare occasions that we use them for meat that's been brought in.

I enjoyed that piece, ChossidMom. Thanks for posting it.

chaylizi

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 8:59 am

I have two dishwashers. my plastic/paper consumption is way down, but it still has its uses occasionally. I'm with aidelmom on the cups- I don't like real cups. I don't wash my plastic cups either b/c then I would have to start labeling them.

Raisin

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:15 am

Quote:

Environmental consciousness is not yet high on the chareidi educational agenda. Part of the reason lies in the anti-human bias that permeates so much of the secular environmental movement and the nonsense perpetrated in the name of environmentalism. The United States is currently foregoing drilling for ten billion barrels of oil on .01% of the Artic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska. It has chosen, at the behest of environmentalists, to send the money for those ten billion barrels money to foreign supporters of international terrorism rather than disturb a couple of moose.

well, guess what! If we would all stop wasting petrol and other resources, we wouldn't need to buy so much oil from the arabs. Rolling Eyes

My favourite is people driving to the gym.

flowerpower

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:15 am

I use plastic cups and plates during the week for dinner. I ain't giving that up yet. It's easier then cleaning up broken dishes.

Seraph

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:17 am

I use plastic on shabbos for the most part for the sake of shalom bayis...
I use disposable aluminum pans all the time. I tend to wash and reuse them- the reason I use disposable is so I dont have to gross myself out and work really hard to clean a really stubborn mess- if its tough to clean, I toss...

I think disposables vs shalom bayis, disposable wins...

cdawnr

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:25 am

After our 11 month stint in Portland, Oregon, our family is a little more environmentally aware.

I have also ralized that using disposable is not the most economically efficient.

I will use disposable when necessary, but have definitely cut down use by about 75%. When we do by disposable I try to get the paper plates, not plastic or foam.

As for the aluminum pans, I only use those when I am really really exhausted or need to make something to freeze that does not transfer well (like some kugels).

I do think we all need towork a little bit harder for the world

Aidelmom

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:28 am

Seraph wrote:

I think disposables vs shalom bayis, disposable wins...

Funny, it would be good for my shalom bayis if I stopped using disposables alltogether.

Raisin

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:38 am

flowerpower wrote:

I use plastic cups and plates during the week for dinner. I ain't giving that up yet. It's easier then cleaning up broken dishes.

you can buy some cheap unbreakable dishes for young kids to use. Or corelle is pretty hard wearing, as long as you don't have a stone floor.

yo'ma

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:41 am

Raisin wrote:

flowerpower wrote:

I use plastic cups and plates during the week for dinner. I ain't giving that up yet. It's easier then cleaning up broken dishes.

you can buy some cheap unbreakable dishes for young kids to use. Or corelle is pretty hard wearing, as long as you don't have a stone floor.

For young kids LOL

? My weekday dishes, fleishig and milichig are both melanine or whatever it's called.

greentiger

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:42 am

I rarely if ever use disposables, and have no dishwasher. I think some women have dish-washing-phobia.

Aidelmom

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:43 am

green, want to come over and do my dishes?

cbmom

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:45 am

I have no dishwasher and we rarely use disposable. Truthfully, it's more an economic decision. I use paper plates once in a while, but I think it ends up being a lot more expensive to only use disposable. But, if I had a huge family or tons of guests all the time maybe I would feel differently.

ChossidMom

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 9:54 am

Do you Chutz La'aretz people know that paper plates are really expensive here? Plastic is much cheaper.

It's really hard for me to behave environmentally aware, in that respect. I have these tiny kitchen sinks and very little room in them for dishes. Even when I use disposables the sink fills up in a second (cereal bowls, blender used for milkshakes, cutlery etc.). I don't hate washing dishes but there really is a limit. I don't know WHAT to do!

Raisin - I DRIVE TO THE GYM. Wouldn't have it any other way. Too hot outside most of the time here. Besides, if I would walk I might tire out and not have strength for my intense workout Mr. Green

Hey, I know. I could just quit the gym and walk there and back!

Back to topic...

Pineapple

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 10:10 am

I hardly use disposable the only time I used it often was before I moved this way I was able to pack away my dishes earlier.

gryp

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 10:16 am

I think there are worse things being done to this planet.

OldYoung

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 10:22 am

We usually use real dishes and silverware but oy am I waiting for the day someone invents disposable bottles and crockpots...