How to speak to teen DD about dressing slightly s#xy

amother

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 5:35 am

My 13 yo physically mature DD BH is very pretty and I see boys/men looking at her. I get that, that’s on them BUT I have also noticed she is starting to dress a little different then I would like..
clothes a little (ok more then a little) tight, She also wears a little makeup. I do think she applies it tastefully so that really isn’t the issue. I guess my real worry is I can see she is enjoying the attention. I assume that is normal but I’m surprised by it happening so young. Should I say anything about the tightness of the clothes? She is my oldest DD. Please be kind. If you need more info ask away.

amother

Snapdragon

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 5:45 am

In the same boat. I also have a 13 year old and I"m also wondering how to explain this to her. Her tightish tops and sheer black stockings are more just trying to wear what everyone else is wearing, less about male attention. But I want to explain to her the message she's giving off, without telling her too much. She's still very innocent and I would like her to stay that way just a little bit longer. So I'd be interested to see what advice is given.

chanatron1000

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:50 am

amother OP wrote:

What to you indicates that this is the case?

amother

Milk

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 6:51 am

Its not clear how extreme shes being.

It is quite common at that age to start dressing like an adult. How you addrrss it depends on how different she is dressing then her current peer group and how she will drrss once in high school.

In any situation, you can start bringing awareness about what she is is wearing to her.

amother

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:03 am

How can I see she is enjoying the attention is because I see her specifically choosing right tops, skirts and applying makeup to wear to events where boys will be as opposed to events that are girls only. She also tells me that certain boys have told friends they like her and I can see she enjoys that. I don’t fault her for this and I appreciate that she is communicating with me. She is not talking to boys. As far as how her friends are dressing a few are less Tznius if I had to “grade them” but in different ways. Nummy sweatshirts and shorter than the knees (just below knee is what I would call the norm in our community). I haven’t seen so much of the right shirts in her peers and most are dressing ina way I would consider more aidel. How do you suggest broaching the topic?? Do I simply say even though your elbows are covered and neckline is good, shirts that are too tight are also not Tznius? Better to mention, now that you have curves or better not to?

amother

Yarrow

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:12 am

amother OP wrote:

It sounds like you are part of a community with mixed events and boy/girl interaction. If so, talking about tznius from a RW perspective (as you do in your posts) don't make sense. I think you need to specify your community, standards, and typical way your daughter's school/her peers approach these sorts of things. Because just based on your posts, there is a disconnect with your outlook/expectations for your daughter and the community she is a part of....

amother

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:16 am

amother Yarrow wrote:

There are some mixed events in our community like a school Chanukah concert. Boys and girls are still expected not to socialize.

amother

Yarrow

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:30 am

amother OP wrote:

There are some mixed events in our community like a school Chanukah concert. Boys and girls are still expected not to socialize.

Any RW community event that I've been to will have a mechitzah or clearly separate areas. As far as school concerts, those are always separate. A community wide concert is not a school concert. Just based on your posts I am wondering if you grew up in a different sort of circle than you are living now, because what you describe simply doesn't mesh with the expectations you are projecting for your daughter.

amother

Milk

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:34 am

amother OP wrote:

There are some mixed events in our community like a school Chanukah concert. Boys and girls are still expected not to socialize.

Its worthwhile for you to think about your concerns a bit, and let them crystalize. Hopefully this thread will help. Here are some questions to ask yourself:

Are your concerns her dress?
Her noticing boys?
Them noticing her and passing that message along?
The fact that she has friends who will pass that message along?

Is your concern that she is acting this way at all or that she is doing it too young?

Is your concern now that shes here, how to make her aware of what shes feeling, how shes responding, and implications?

Are you scared shes going off the derech or is the fear that shes growing up too fast?
Are you nervous about her "crowd". (Are there other ones? Are they aligned with your family?)
Are you worried about getting into high school?

How you answer and respond to the above is community dependent and will vary if you are in Columbus vs Cleveland vs 5towns vs Lakewood vs KJ.

amother

Hawthorn

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:40 am

amother OP wrote:

It seems from this that you are living in a place where attention from boys is okay at this age. Otherwise boys wouldn't be telling her friends that they like her. Anyone would enjoy that kind of attention. I wouldn't turn this into a girl-boy thing. Sit down and learn the halachos together. Make it non-emotional. Simple halachos the same as any other halachos. Hilchos tznius. Hilchos yichud. Hilchos shmiras einayim.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 8:11 am

So I was going to advice something like Hawthorn just did. Hilchos negeeah, yichud, tznius, with the emphasis on the beauty of being a Jewish woman. Learning about amazing Jewish women (there are a plethora of books you can learn together about Jewish women in Tanach/History)
You wont be able to protect her from herself and the (male) attention she may be getting from the outside but you can teach her that she is so much more than that. The halachos are there to enable us to be valued for far more than the externals.
Can you get her involved in volunteer work that will make her feel good and develop her inside (along with the outside)?

amother

Peru

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 9:15 am

Halachas related to yichud, negiah, erva, and so on are all good to learn. But I think the learning is more likely to have an impact if these halachos are learned in the course of a relationship of mother/daughter learning that will be ongoing.

Kids can sense when parents are just reacting to things the parents are afraid of. If you never bothered learning with her before, and then you drop learning with her as soon as you're done with these topics, it will be pretty transparent to most kids.

Consider establishing a regular time for you and her to learn together that you can use for these topics, but also use to learn other topics together, including topics that have no agenda (so to speak).

I am not at your stage yet, so I don't know how my girls will fare when it comes to tznius and boys. But we learn together about parsha, hilchos terumos and maasros, Chanukah, the setup of the bais hamikdash, matanos l'aniyim. I see these things as a valuable investment in their internal development as Jews, even though they are not farmers in eretz Yisrael or bringing korbanos. And our time together is an investment in our relationship and emotional connection.

YMMV, good luck!

Added - The head of Eatontown Mesivta, who has a lot of experience with teen challenges, spoke to the Agudah convention last year. He recommended strongly to fill children's minds with Torah as a countermeasure to teenage yetzer hara's, and he says very clearly that this is for both boys and girls. That doesn't mean they need to learn the same things, but that Torah will help both. The part about this starts around 3:40 and goes for a few minutes.
https://www.torahanytime.com/#.....11125

Rappel

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 9:22 am

My kids are still young. Thoughts:

When you're hanging out with her, comment on fashion you see around you - "that's classy!" "Umm, I think that's a wardrobe mistake. She looks like that jacket is too small on her." "That's a perfect work outfit" "I like that exercise outfit, but her legs look cold with such short leggings."

Tell her she's beautiful and valuable, and have relationships talks with her. But let her and her mirror judge her own wardrobe.

WhatFor

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 9:28 am

Rappel wrote:

Oy, I strongly disagree with the bolded. Not only does this affirm to her that externals are a top priority in terms of receiving affirmation, this is also mean-girl type middot to teach a 13 yo.

Imagine your kid hears someone rudely gossiping about her outfit? Or even an adult hears this about themselves? There are better ways.

amother

Hunter

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 9:29 am

Rappel wrote:

I would hate to teach my daughter to stare at people and judge their clothing choices.

amother

Hunter

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 9:30 am

WhatFor wrote:

We cross posted. Absolutely agree.