I hate being poor here

amother

Arcticblue

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 2:11 am

amother Grape wrote:

dhs Chavrusah, a neighbor, two friends. All who recently bought nice beautiful houses in Howell/Jackson/Pine lake park. They all said that hud gave them 15k for down payment (maybe they got confused with first time homeowners grant?!) and that they get 1k monthly toward the mortgage. Idk why they would make it up…and all consistent with each other

It isn't so insane for the Hud + first time homeowners grant to help make buying possible for a kollel family.
There are still some homes available in the 600k range - like this one in Pine Lake Park:
https://www.zillow.com/homedet.....zpid/

Say the wife worked for two years before marriage and managed to save 30k, they got 10k in wedding gifts, and spent the first 5 years of marriage with rent covered (typical in Lakewood), allowing them to put away 1,500 per month which totals 90k.
If you add the first time home owners grant of 15k - you have a total down -payment payment of 145k.
Now the monthly payment on such a home is about $3,649(according to Zillow) - which is a lot. But if you can apply the Hud grant to it of $1,000 - then it's $2,649 - which is basically what they would be paying for a 3 bedroom apartment.

Consider that if they qualify for Hud - they are also on Jersey care, wic, foodstamps, and probably aren't paying babysitting either. Say the wife is making 45k on her 9-2 job, husband is in BMG for over 3 years so gets $1,800 a month.
When they start paying tuition for a few kids they will not be making it, but then the husband leaves BMG and gets a job, and all of a sudden they loose all the benefits, and they end up choking in the middle class - and write posts like the OP.

amother

Arcticblue

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 2:17 am

Back to the Op - I think living in Lakewood there are two things that you need to be conscious off:

Where you send to school, and what neighborhood you live in.
There are neighborhoods in Lakewood that are more simple and low key. Now its low key Lakewood style - so it means shopping end of season in Jewish stores or buying fake brands on Aliplus, but it is not the same rat race.

There are schools that the majority come from generational wealth, and others that are less so. I noticed that the "harder to get into" "more prestigious " schools are worse on the pressure front.

You say your crowd is like this - I wonder if you can make a move within the greater lakewood area - to relieve some of the pressure. There are lower key neighborhoods. And when you make the choice on High Schools - its something to consider before you find everyone you know to push you into Bais Yaakov of Lakewood.

amother

Grape

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 6:13 am

amother Oleander wrote:

This doesn't make any sense. You can't buy a house nowadays with 15k down payment and 1k monthly towards mortgage - they must have had significant help with a down payment or monthly payments. It’s not just HUD.

well yeah…oh wait maybe the gov should start giving out completely free houses that’s really gonna be incentivizing people to work Can't Believe It

. Do you not see the difference between a 2500 mortgage and 3500?!

amother

Grape

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 6:16 am

amother Arcticblue wrote:

yup.

imaima

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 6:45 am

amother OP wrote:

I feel like I don’t belong. (This can probably apply to any Jewish neighborhood)
I go into the fancy stores and immediately feel out of place and lose my confidence. It seems like they can sense I’m not cool enough and can’t afford 95% of the things available.
I hate going to the grocery and calculating all the prices while people around me pile in the $150 roasts. I hate that I can’t afford any house and that I’ll have to wait forever or maybe never to truly afford a house. I hate not being able to buy my kids clothing in the “regular” local stores. I hate that my girls can’t advance in skills because I don’t have time and can’t afford the clubs. My kids just want the normal stretchies for the baby.
I hate feeling poor in a place where it seems is made for not poor people.

I’m venting. I know I can move somewhere , but it’s hard to take my old enough girls and move them to a new school, let alone find jobs for both of us

When I joined imamother, Lakewood was for those who chose spiritual over material.
What happened?

amother

Dimgray

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 7:32 am

amother Arcticblue wrote:

Say the wife worked for two years before marriage and managed to save 30k, they got 10k in wedding gifts, and spent the first 5 years of marriage with rent covered (typical in Lakewood), allowing them to put away 1,500 per month which totals 90k.
If you add the first time home owners grant of 15k - you have a total down -payment payment of 145k.
Now the monthly payment on such a home is about $3,649(according to Zillow) - which is a lot. But if you can apply the Hud grant to it of $1,000 - then it's $2,649 - which is basically what they would be paying for a 3 bedroom apartment.

Consider that if they qualify for Hud - they are also on Jersey care, wic, foodstamps, and probably aren't paying babysitting either. Say the wife is making 45k on her 9-2 job, husband is in BMG for over 3 years so gets $1,800 a month.
When they start paying tuition for a few kids they will not be making it, but then the husband leaves BMG and gets a job, and all of a sudden they loose all the benefits, and they end up choking in the middle class - and write posts like the OP.

These numbers are pretty overly idealistic. Most young couples arent savvy enough to put what they would be spending on rent into savings. And you don't qualify for chs if you're only working 9-2, it's a 30hr minimum and you have to literally be making pennies to qualify with only 1 kid. And BMG checks are $1,000 not 1800.

Very very very few people are buying houses without significant help these days

amother

Oleander

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 7:37 am

amother Dimgray wrote:

This.

And how in the world can you afford $2500 a month on a part time job. And once you make more money you lose your eligibility for HUD... no way are these families doing it without significant help (and parents giving a monthly check for the first five years is ALSO significant help!!!!).

amother

Impatiens

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 7:38 am

Op I hear you!
I feel the same way. I try to avoid those types of stores and stick with stores I’m more comfortable in.
My oldest two are boys so they don’t have opinions about how I dress my girls or babies bH and I dress them in gap H&M and Zara until they need to wear long sleeves etc (kindergarten? Primary?)
I send to simple schools. I’m applying for my dd next year and specifically looking for a simpler school.
My friends are mostly on the simpler side.
It’s really hard! I try to stick to my principles and even when I do have the budget for an expensive item, I choose items that are logoless or very hard to spot the logo. I think part of tznius means not wearing brand names emblazoned everywhere.
It’s really really hard and I totally understand how you feel op.

DVOM

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 7:47 am

Oh my friend, I truly feel for you.

If it makes you feel better, I can't afford the 150$ roasts or the Jewish clothing stores either.

Find your people. There here. I have a wonderful circle of friends who share my values and priorities. Walk away from the rat-race and come and find us, the Lakewood underground who shop in Aldi's and Once Upon a Child and exchange recipes for whatever's on sale at NPGS that week.

amother

Banana

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 9:19 am

Op, I can afford it- & I don't.

I used to be less confident. As our income increased, I realized I have noone to prove things to, anymore. I then realized, really I never had anything to prove to anyone.

I wish I had always had that attitude. I don't care about brands- my kids wear old navy sweatshirts- not T.O. for $150. I don't shop in London Kids for shoes. I shop in Tottini, & Ali & Temu. Sure, I spend $, but it's in areas that you probably wouldn't notice, like getting my boys custom suits so they fit extra nicely.

Honestly, as long as your kids look put together, who cares where you got it & when. When I sit with family members and I listen about how they were running to catch this brand or that in the store of the day came in in February, I just laugh at them and think about how pathetic they all are.

I don't push the most expensive stroller, bec I don't like it. My house is new, but it was intentionally built in a way that makes it look smaller on the outside- because I don't need people talking about how big it looks.

Hv confidence in yourself. Years ago I noticed that the most 'in style' family member used to put on the most ridiculous clothes and everyone always assumed it was in style (she honestly, just has a weird taste in clothes) and I realized that if I walked around with her confidence and if someone asked me about something I was wearing and I said oh yes, it's the latest thing, people would believe me.

Chin up, you're amazing. And definitely, if it is important for you to be able to buy certain types of Brands, you should for sure buy at the end of the year because yes all, everyone does it! (Except me, I've always been really bad at shopping in advance because I got my kids sizes wrong so I stopped doing it because I was actually losing money).
There were a lot of suggestions in this thread about ways to be able to buy those types of things on a budget.

BLG613

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 9:44 am

This is why my husband told me he didn’t feel Lakewood was for us.
I don’t know if your husband would consider it but a lot of Lakewood kollelim are opening in many out of town communities. I know it’s different living OOT and doesn’t have the same conveniences as in-town places, but it’s all a package. With tons of people comes tons of conveniences and also tons of pressure and higher standards.

I grew up out of town, went to a small school and honestly feel I had a much healthier upbringing. The wealthy were wealthy and the rest of us accepted where we were at and didn’t try to compete with them. We were friends with people even if they wouldn’t have been our “type” in a bigger school

I’m sure the generation has changed regardless but the lower key communities 1) are communities- which I really don’t know if Lakewood has anymore. You go to Shul and school with the same people in your neighborhood and you’re friends and there is just more of a community feel
You’re also not just a # - if you want to, you actually can contribute to the community in a real way without all the competition
And 2) oot is usually cheaper

amother

Hosta

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 9:47 am

amother Banana wrote:

Re the bolded.. wow! That is really special

amother

Poinsettia

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 10:07 am

amother Banana wrote:

I always laugh when people say this, but are you me?? I could have written this word for word, except the Ali and Temu because I have rotten luck with them.
OP, people care much less than you think. And if the people in your life care too much about your business, it’s time for new people! Be confident and do what works for you.

amother

Banana

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 10:09 am

amother Poinsettia wrote:

I don't know ppl like this irl...the ppl I know care way too much, those who dont care, usually can't.

Let's be friends lol.

amother

Arcticblue

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 11:05 am

amother Dimgray wrote:

This is how my friends and family are doing it - although most where working for a few more years before getting married and saved more. Yes, getting your rent paid for 5 years is insane help - but is also pretty standard in Lakewood circles. At least for my family I know they are doing it without additional financial help. They all bought in the last year or so