Otd son bought a smartphone

amother

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 1:37 am

How would you deal with a totally unfiltered cell phone in your home? Maybe I should accept him and his choices right now but he's my oldest and I have four younger kids who could be exposed to anything! This is not about how he got the phone. It's a given fact. Besides the fact that his school could find out.... but my younger kids are really the main concern
Btw, he is very mad and not speaking to us at the moment .

amother

Viola

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 2:16 am

amother OP wrote:

How old is he? Sometimes people just take different paths in life. I know of multiple guys who have successful careers and are very educated (think, doctors, lawyers, etc) just that being frum wasn’t for them. Try to dissuade him from using drugs and to pursue a good career. The guys who didn’t and were on drugs were the issue. Now, is a very delicate time, you’re treading on thin waters. You want him to trust you. So be very careful what you say to him so this way even if he takes a different path, you can know what’s going on and hopefully guide him in a better direction had he not had you. Just tell him you’re aware of the phone, you don’t want him using it in front of other kids. But, aren’t mad at him and won’t take it away and want to know what’s going on. Also, don’t kick him out, just give him his own room to use his phone in. This way if you know where the phone is you can see everything going on. If you agree to also help pay for it, then maybe he’ll allow you access to it so you see everything going on.

amother

Viola

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 2:46 am

amother OP wrote:

Isn't it too much of a temptation for the others if they know there's something forbidden in the house they can't use? I mean they can always sneak into his room and he wouldn't care...
Dh thinks we just have to get rid of it which would obviously cause a further rift but might be the lesser of two evils. I'm not sure if I agree...

You have to remember you’re treading on thin waters. Even if his otd, you want as much to be in his life so you can still guide him. If it’s gonna cause a rift, rethink of something else.

amother

Bisque

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 2:54 am

Unfortunately you can't control your son having a phone, if you insist he gets rid of it, and he listens he'll just go buy another one or worse he'll walk out. I don' think a password will help much but rather sit down with him and explain him that he can't show anything on the phone to his siblings because that would be my main concern. Let him know that you're there for him and you're happy to pay for a filter and put it on a setting which could suit him so it won't block you tube or other things but will block harmful content. Best thing is if you and your husband get guidance so you don't do anything destructive to your relationship with him.

Also you say he is OTD but he's still in a school that doesn't let him have a phone? Maybe he needs to move to a school that could work with him?

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 3:06 am

amother OP wrote:

Having been in this position, can I share something?

First you need a Rav with experience to guide you for the next few years.
But what really worried me here is that you aren't giving your other children guidance as to how to deal with this temptation.
You need to speak to your kids, preferably individually, and open the discussion about phones and internet, discuss what is dangerous about it, why people use it, what the Rabonim say, not in an aggressive way but in an informational way.
Forcefully throwing it out doesn't work. Your kids need the strength to resist it. Wherever we go nowadays there are these temptations. They need to understand the temptation, understand where it's coming from and how dangerous it is and build the inner strength to resist. If their brother is at this place, guaranteed they are already confused and have questions. Knowledge is power. Educate them.

The next step is how to deal with this situation. We were told that throwing it out would just mean he got another one and hid it better and we should sit with him and work out together how to keep the family safe. He himself made 4 rules. a. only in his room b. he gives it to us for Shabbos c. he put on a basic filter to keep the worst stuff out d. it's his responsibility to make sure his siblings don't see it. He kept those rules. and because he saw that we were with him not fighting him, he slowly put on a stronger and stronger filter until today he has just email and whatsapp.

amother

Mauve

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 3:25 am

amother OP wrote:

A few questions come up that really affect how you deal with this.

How old is your son? Age range? Young teen, mid teen, post high school, twenties?

What do you mean that he is OTD? Do you mean really, like not keeping Shabbos, kashrus? Or not following your path, dressing differently, maybe hanging out with girls, wants more exposure?

How is he paying for his phone service? If he is connecting to wifi, is he connecting to your wifi?

We had a situation with our son who is not OTD but would like more freedom than we typically would give our kids. Young teen. He bought a phone with his own money. And figured out how to connect it to our home wifi. I immediately changed our internet settings to prevent this. He could not have data because he couldn't sign up to a service without credit card. Then we offered him that we would allow him access if we could install a filtering service that we have control over. And we agreed on a list of apps that he could use (no browser, YouTube, etc) and how much time. In exchange he has access to whatsapp and some other apps. Ideal? No, I'd much rather he not have a smartphone. But realistically this was as good as I'd get.

You sound like you have a long road ahead of you. Your relationship with your son is most important. It should be respectful in two directions. And, for me, one of the most important goals is that even if my son chooses a different path in life than what I'd like him to follow, I would like to make sure that I give him to tools to have a good, decent, life, where he can get a profession, support himself, and be an upstanding and respectable person. So, for example, we've offered to pay for his other hobbies if he maintains a high average in school.

Good luck and may Hashem help you get through this challenging time.

amother

Clematis

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 4:05 am

amother OP wrote:

Please get the right guidance not from here call kesher nafshi to start with!

amother

Lightblue

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 6:16 am

FWIW, everyone has a password on their iPhone. It is literally part of the process of setting it up. Even the police or FBI can't get into an iPhone with a password - unless someone is stupid enough to use an obvious one like 1234 or their birthday.

While you are focusing on teenagers, the majority of people who have iPhones ((or other smart phones) have very critical data on their phones - not just personal texts or email. They have banking and financial information, medical information.

Also with a password, if you lose your iPhone or it is stolen, it is essentially useless to the person who steals it because it is unusable.

amother

Cognac

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 6:47 am

Welcome to a new world of twisted parenting. I know this is not the world you wanted to be part of but for some reason you are here now.
Please listen to lectures by avi fishoff. He explains that when a child is going through this stage you have to look at them as a sick person. The smartphone is their medicine. Your son is obviously in pain now and this is how he numbs his pain. You should not take it away from him but you can request that he should not let the other kids have access to it. Show him that you love him and respect him and that you just want him to be happy and feel good. For now.
Also look up rabbi shimon Russel. Your life will change when you hear what he has to say about kids in pain (he calls them kips). He says that each child who is going through this, most probably experienced some sort of trauma. They are now in crisis mode. Don’t even try to use regular parenting techniques because this requires crisis chinuch. Listen to his lectures on crisis chinuch. He explains that the only way the child will heal is if they experience a lot of love and warmth. No criticism. It’s hard but using any other method will make things much worse.
Contact kesher nafshi. It’s a support organization for parents whose kids are rebelling. The amount of people who have reached out to this organization is mind boggling. Regular, frum parents who never imagined they would be dealing with this. The support and encouragement they offer is not to be believed.
You have a journey ahead of you. It won’t be easy but please know that there really is support and guidance out there for exactly what you’re dealing with.

amother

Blue

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 7:07 am

amother Cognac wrote:

This is very good advice!
Just want to point out that avi fishoff's methods are geared to extremely rebellious teens openly not shomer shabbos and often drug user/suicidal.
It's not for regular struggling teens.
You can contact nesivos and/or resolve.
If you're in lakewood rabbi Drew in TAG was very good at dealing with my struggling dd. He gave her very good advice.

amother

Pewter

Mon, Jan 08 2024, 7:14 am

amother Cognac wrote:

Where can I listen to rabbi Russel?