Lying to your kids

Brit in Israel

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 7:39 am

amother DarkKhaki wrote:

They typically don't choose their environment much, they nearly always just land where they land and do their best to live in it.

If you put 2 heads together one that has lice, if the lice likes the blood and other factors of the second head they will go over to them if not they will stay on the head they are on.
They choose who they spread too.

amother

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 7:41 am

amother Zinnia wrote:

I agree with all of this.

Little kids aren’t logical like adults. They can’t see beyond the horrible looking brown spots to decide if they like it or not. But you call it honey, and their minds suddenly see it differently.

Saying sweet potatoes or potatoes sweet is literally no different, not sure how that’s considered a lie. And saying some yogurts are “for adults only” is exactly what it is.

All this depends the age too. Hopefully no one’s trying to lie like this to a 10 year old. But I think it’s perfectly fine to say it to a kid who’s 3 or 4.

Spots on bananas are not honey. You can tell them it’s sweeter and it would have the same effect…. Saying the yogurt is for adults only is not saying that this is what the container says.

A 3-4 year old can internalize white lies just as well only on their level.

amother

Carnation

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 8:16 am

I am against even small lies to children.
What you are saying is not complete lies just twisting things around.

When I was a kid and we kvetched about a cookie that broke, my mother used to say 'it's gonna fix itself in your stomach'. I believed her but as I got older I understood it didn't matter. Besides appeasing a kid, she was always extremely honest.

sushilover

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 8:36 am

I tell my kids that I have eyes in the back of my head.
I am 99 years old. At each next birthday I turn 100.
That kisses give you energy. When they are tired, I "fill them up" with kisses so that they can jump/ climb/ dance more. (That's the only one I think they really believe for now than a few weeks/ months)
Toys get sad when they aren't shared.

Kids are fun! We don't have to take everything so seriously.
Plus, I do think it helps them understand subtlety, humor, not having black and white thinking.

sushilover

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 8:38 am

amother Snow wrote:

Yep. Someone told my son that eating the crusts of the bread will make his teeth strong.
He's 4, that age when everything starts with emes, Mommy I'm going to have strong teeth...? and I'm like uh ....

This one might be true.
Eating only soft foods causes poor bone development in the jaw. The crusts and other tough foods are probably good for your bones and teeth.

TravelHearter

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:02 am

Saying something dramatic everyone knows is a joke is just that- a joke. Not a lie. Like when my students ask me my age I say a different dramatic number every time.

Explaining things in a way that is appealing to children may be dramatic but isn’t a lie either. Saying the spots on the banana are almost like honey that’s how sweet they are etc. (Not saying it IS honey).

Lies, little white lies, telling them the truth when they are older…people we have an Issur! We are not allowed to tell lies. Zehu. You can agree or disagree from today until tomorrow but it is against halacha to tell lies, no matter the size. Let’s not excuse it.

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:12 am

amother OP wrote:

Something tells me you don't have a very harmonious relationship with your MIL.
There are instances where it's OK to say a white lie for for shlom bayit for example.

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:13 am

TravelHearter wrote:

There are examples where one needs to say a white lie. For example for shlom bayit.

amother

Vermilion

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:14 am

I like to be factual and so don't like saying these types of lies, it's definitely not setting a good example.
But I don't think it's the worst thing especially if saying it to very small children, lying about sweet potatos or bananas is something that if the child remembers it when they are older they won't feel cheated.
However lying about things like how babies are made or such is something that once the child learns the truth they will be resentful about so it's entirely different.

Chayalle

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:18 am

TravelHearter wrote:

Not true, actually.
R' Avigdor Miller discusses this on a tape I heard once....it's been a while and I don't want to say this inaccurately (no pun intended here)....but he says that truth is sometimes subjective. We are not always meant to say the truth. That's why the Torah doesn't outright say "don't lie". It says "M'dvar Sheker Tirchak" - distance yourself from falsehood. But there are times where the truth is not desireable.

Examples - we say "Kallah Naeh V'Chasuda" even if the bride is not pretty.
And we sometimes stretch the truth to make peace.....

So it's not so black and white.

OP, I agree about generally being truthful to kids, but some of your examples show a little rigidity on your part. I think the brown spots on the banana could be presented as a type of honey (I was brought up that way, and I have no major resentment about it). I wouldn't say the yogurt container says something it doesn't, though.

TravelHearter

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:38 am

Right, but we know the exceptions. Like lying for Shalom- it’s way more complicated then we think though!

All the ‘little white lies’ people are mentioning are ways for them to get away with something. How is that what the Torah is talking about? The Torah brings exceptions, and none of these fall into those categories.

amother

Wandflower

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:50 am

amother OP wrote:

Agree! And with bigger white lies they learn not everything you tell them is true.

Child of lying parents here Hooray

. Its totally confusing and causes the child to be confused, to lose confidence in the world (as parents you are their world), in G-d and religion, in authority or any authoritative figures, Children can be totally messed up by the lies. - not knowing whats true and whats not, whats real, whats not.
And worse, you teach children to lie as well. Not realizing that its wrong.

Chayalle

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:51 am

TravelHearter wrote:

It's about normalizing certain things. The Torah is teaching us that truth is subjective. I remember Rabbi Miller saying that.

I remember going to the hospital to see my new niece, when I was a teen. There was a woman standing at the glass window to the nursery, and she was pointing to the ugliest little baby I had ever seen - scrawny and yellow and really not appealing - and the person beside her was exclaiming "isn't she beautiful!" And I don't think she was lying. She was saying a mother's truth.

We teach children to thank their relatives for a gift they don't particularly like or want. Because the truth is, they should learn appreciation regardless.

We tell people something is okay when it isn't really....sometimes that's the truth we are meant to say.

I don't see a problem with helping a child be comfortable with eating a banana with a few brown spots by calling them honey. Honey is an adjective here - it's basically normalizing it for the child, helping them to understand on their level that the banana is okay to eat.

But I'd rather tell kids that the yogurt is not for them, than lie about something that the container does not say (and what if you ran out of pouches and wanted the kid to eat some yogurt? Or maybe they will be somewhere where that's served, and they will realize you lie to them?)

I don't go for lying to kids but not everything is a lie.

amother

Zinnia

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:54 am

amother OP wrote:

Do you have a 3 year old? It most certainly wouldn’t have the same effect.

If it was me, I’d probable call it “banana honey” like someone said and I’d consider it rebranding, not lying. (Mostly I just cut off the brown spots for them and half the banana ends up in the garbage Can't Believe It

)

I also wouldn’t make up what it says on a container, but my bigger kids would and then my three year old would “show” them that it really says “for kids only” and she’d probably win LOL

so I’m not too worried about it.

ETA that I don’t lie about real things. My kids know about their bodies and where babies come from in an age appropriate way. We talk about what’s going on in the world and when they ask me questions, I always answer truthfully. I just think using toddler level logic/words on toddlers is ok and isn’t the same as lying and I wouldn’t be disturbed if my mil spoke that way.