If you don't like saying how many children you have

amother

Butterscotch

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 5:04 pm

Success10 wrote:

It's a good topic for a spinoff. I've asked seemingly young couples with no kids when they got married and the answer was several years ago.... so uncomfortable. But we can't just not make conversation ever! Not sure....

As someone 'married for several years without kids' I'll just add my thought on this.
Any question mentioning marriage, kids, job, etc. is personal and should never be asked.
There are so many neutral topics to talk about.

SuperWify

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 5:07 pm

amother Butterscotch wrote:

But we’re talking about a situation we’re it’s know the other party has a child and their it’s appropriate (in my books at least) to ask about them.

I would never ask someone I just met about their children before verifying there is indeed offspring in the picture.

amother

Butterscotch

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 5:18 pm

SuperWify wrote:

That's why I wrote "Any question mentioning marriage, kids, job, etc."
If someone is talking about their kids, it might be she lost a child or many other reasons it can be painful.
If someone is talking about their husband, it might be he is from the well-known family; for not good reasons or many other reasons it can be painful.
If someone is talking about their job, it might be she was fired and will have to leave the place next week or many other reasons it can be painful.

amother

Forsythia

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 5:47 pm

This reminds me,

I was at the obgyn recently for an annual gyn checkup. A woman (not Jewish) asked me - “is this your first pregnancy?” When I told her I actually wasn’t pregnant, she started turning all colors and frantically blurting out apologies, “I shouldn’t have assumed….. etc etc etc”.

I felt really bad for her and tried to assure her that it was totally ok. I was here for a regular well visit and happens to be I already have a toddler at home.

Poor her she was so excited and one track minded about her pregnancy, she forgot that there are other reasons people come.

The point is, sometimes people put their foot in their mouths and it’s not the end of the world.

We ended up talking a lot more. I think the initial blunder actually brought us closer lol…

amother

Indigo

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 5:55 pm

amother Butterscotch wrote:

Could you give me some examples? People here keep telling me that I'm overthinking it so I'm really stuck on how to approach this.

Tao

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 6:10 pm

amother Butterscotch wrote:

Please, do tell us what are these neutral topics you speak of. I guarantee you I can find a way they may be triggering for someone!
(This is not to put down your pain; infertility is an incredibly difficult nisayon. But that doesn't mean children should be a topic to never ever discuss or mention. I sincerely sympathize with your pain. The same way not everyone is married or has a job or has kids in schools or has food to eat or has parents or has siblings or can see and hear, we can't just avoid every single topic under the sun that may be upsetting for someone.)

Last edited by Tao on Thu, Jan 25 2024, 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

Tao

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 6:12 pm

For example: I know someone whose sister got a tumor in her eye from the sunshine. She has to be extremely cautious in the summer, and limit her time outdoors. People, commenting on the weather is not a safe topic! (Sarcasm alert)

My Best Self

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 6:32 pm

In what context do you need to ask someone how many kids they have? It's not relevant and non of your business.

Why can we not respect someone's decision about what she is comfortable sharing about HERSELF and HER life?

Our culture is so twisted that we think we have a right to ask a personal question and then mock the person who chooses not to answer.

It says brocha rests where there is quiet. Like the second luchos were given quietly. We don't need to flaunt what we have. I personally do not answer the question, unless it's a medical professional or it would make a kiddush Hashem, that we are BH a large and beautiful family. I also don't put my kids as my profile picture on any social media accounts.

amother

Butterscotch

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 6:34 pm

I just want to say to all questioners who are annoyed or offended from peoples comebacks or answers you don't like, think it's rude, ect, you very possibly hit a raw nerve with your question and that's not a reason to cut conversation short. They didn't mean to snob you, it was just very painful.

There are no rules. If you get you it you get. Sensitivity can't be taught it comes from experience.

amother

Butterscotch

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 6:38 pm

My Best Self wrote:

💯

Tao

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 6:38 pm

My Best Self wrote:

That's totally fine. If you don't want to share things about yhour life, it's completely your right not to. Please also don't be surprised if you find yourself without any close friends. Relationships are built on sharing. If you can't share, no problem, but don't expect others to stick around.
Personally I am not close to any secretive people, including certain close family members. I accept the fact that they'll never say anything; I also just avoid them because it's annoying, and I got tired of sharing and being met with blankness.

amother

Butterscotch

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 6:41 pm

Tao wrote:

I think this thread is about 2 seperate things, with some referring to random people and others to referring friends.

amother

Butterscotch

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 6:59 pm

Tao wrote:

It's not about avoiding topics, but rather avoid questions. Talk about your personal life and the other person will add about their life. It will come along the conversation. Just DON"T ask.

I'm not talking about myself. This is to any situation.

I personally am not pained when people ask me about my kids, though I do like sarcastic replies. Not because I want to snob the questioner, it will just make them think twice before asking other people whom it may be triggering.

Tao

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 7:02 pm

amother Butterscotch wrote:

It's not about avoiding topics, but rather avoid questions. Talk about your personal life and the other person will add about their life. It will come along the conversation. Just DON"T ask.

So let's say the topic of children, for example. Does it really hurt less if she talks all about her children, than it would if she asked how many children you have?

Money. If she talks about her vacation and renovations and new sheitel, that's less painful than her asking a question about your vacation plans/home/sheitel etc?

If she talks about her kid loving math, that's less painful than asking where your child goes to school, if he hasn't been accepted yet?

amother

Butterscotch

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 7:06 pm

Tao wrote:

Yes. Because if you talk about yourself she might leave pained, whereas if you ask her she has to come up with an answer.

And bragging is never a go to. There is balanced talk.

Tao

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 7:07 pm

I'll give you another (true) example. A friend of mine, her father used to have an incredible voice. He had surgery (maybe for voice nodules or whatever it's called?) and since then, he can't sing anywhere near how he used to. There were certain tapes (yes tapes, lol) that they weren't allowed to listen to growing up because it reminded him of those days and it was incredibly painful to him. So I ask you, am I not allowed to now say to someone, "I love the song xyz!" I mean, what if it's painful for them? Or what if that's the song they were listening to when someone they loved passed away....literally, there is NOTHING that can ever be said, or asked, that couldn't possibly ever trigger anyone in the entire world. We still need to be normal....

Tao

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 7:08 pm

amother Butterscotch wrote:

Yes. Because if you talk about yourself she might leave pained, whereas if you ask her she has to come up with an answer.

And bragging is never a go to. There is balanced talk.

Like I said, if you believe this, please give me an example. I'll show you how it can be triggering for someone.

amother

Whitesmoke

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 7:11 pm

Tao wrote:

This is not an equal comparison to someone who has been waiting years for children and doesn't know if she will ever have. There are enough stories in Tanach that make it clear it is one of the most challenging nisyonos a person can have and that people should strive to be sensitive towards their vulnerability (a few great figures in Tanach were punished/admonished for lacking that sensitivity. it wasn't just Penina with her taunting, it was people like Yaakov and Boaz who didn't taunt, but were insensitive in the way they spoke or acted).

amother

Ruby

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 7:15 pm

amother Butterscotch wrote:

This!!!!

Tao

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 7:17 pm

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

I wasn't saying it is. Of course there's no comparison. My point is, literally anything can trigger anyone. There are many nisyanos that are terribly difficult to bear. There are people drowning in debt; should we now never say "I need to go make supper" - because what if they can't afford food to make for supper (and there are plenty who can't)?
Having a child not accepted into a school is an extremely difficult nisayon to bear (speaking from actual experience here), can you now never say anything school-related ever?
Having a health condition is an extremely difficult nisayon, can you not say, "Want to meet me at the park tomorrow?" because what if they need to go in for dialysis or have an appointment or whatever?