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-> Parenting our children
-> Teenagers and Older children
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amother
OP
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 Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:08 am
My son is 16
He has no sense of responsibility or accountability. I can wake him up 29 times and he just goes back to sleep. He knows he needs to leave at a certain time for his bus but doesn’t care. Any of my other children will realize that they’re late and jump out of bed and rush. This one could care less. He ll come to yeshiva late. Shabbos morning can walk into shul 45 min late no problem and this is with so much stress on my part. It’s an hour after his yeshiva started Shachris and he is still in bed. My blood is boiling. He could care less ( before you ask he is not depressed and really likes yeshiva he just could care less to be responsible) he has no get go . I am a super punctual and responsible person and this is killing me . He usually will come down 20 mins late and expect to be driven ( he can’t walk) but this is a new level
I want to call and discuss it with his rebbi. DH thinks I’m crazy and just leave him alone . I can’t raise such an irresponsible child. He’s almost an adult. I think we must take care of this
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amother
Lotus
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:11 am
Take yourself out of the situation completely. Don't wake him up, (he should set an alarm clock), he needs to get himself to yeshiva if he's late, (don't drive him there), & suffer the consequences of his lateness.
Leave it completely up to him & take yourself out of the situation. It's his problem, not yours.
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amother
OP
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:16 am
Not sure how that’s helpful. Sumo he shouldn’t go to shul on shabbos? Really? It’s not like he’ll feel bad and care to do better next time . He just won’t care
Same with waking up he doesn’t learn lessons
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peace2
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:30 am
If you're always driving him to yeshiva when he wakes up late, he has no need to learn a lesson. Tell him you'll wake him once and then it's his responsibility. A few days of being very late or stuck at home might change his attitude a bit.
And if he consistently misses shul on shabbos he might feel bad - first of all he knows you don't approve even if you don't say anything about it, and secondly, if his friends are showing up to shul there might be peer pressure for him to go. Or you can try to come up with solutions together- like can he set up a chavrusa for half an hour before shacharis to be mechayav him to go on time - or maybe your dh can learn with him then...
But put the responsibility on him and force him to step up instead of trying to fix it for him
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amother
Lotus
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:34 am
| amother OP wrote: | Not sure how that’s helpful. Sumo he shouldn’t go to shul on shabbos? Really? It’s not like he’ll feel bad and care to do better next time . He just won’t care
Same with waking up he doesn’t learn lessons |
It's not your problem. Really.
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amother
OP
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:38 am
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That won’t work because he also doesn’t learn when he s out of yeshiva . Another pet peeve of mine. Even though I don’t think it’s normal behavior. When he s in yeshhh iyH va he learns well BH but when he s home evening shabbos etc he won’t learn at all . He doesn’t have friends in the area and h Ewing learn with my husband . His indifference to yiddishkeit scares me . I have no idea how to handle this.
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amother
Charcoal
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:40 am
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You sound like you are internalizing your sons behavior. Take a step back. Yes, he is your child. But he is old enough to take responsibility for his own actions. You can encourage and praise and try to help him but the level of frustration I am detecting seems over the top.
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Chayalle
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:42 am
It sounds like you need some help to disassociate your personal negius from your son. You are way too enmeshed in him here, and it's not helping. Your expectations need to be realistic and in line with who he is.
Let him go to a later minyan on Shabbos if he's late. I don't have sons but from what I hear, what you are describing is pretty normal for a boy who is more chilled. So he's not like his brothers. Stop comparing and let him own himself. You trying to control his outcomes isn't working or helping.
Yes, get advice from someone experienced in these matters on how to handle (Not sure if his Rebbe is the right address, maybe someone experienced in chinuch with boys who are more chilled). But take a big huge emotional step back.
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amother
Lotus
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:43 am
| amother OP wrote: | | That won’t work because he also doesn’t learn when he s out of yeshiva . Another pet peeve of mine. Even though I don’t think it’s normal behavior. When he s in yeshhh iyH va he learns well BH but when he s home evening shabbos etc he won’t learn at all . He doesn’t have friends in the area and h Ewing learn with my husband . His indifference to yiddishkeit scares me . I have no idea how to handle this. |
This is fairly common behavior for teens. I know it's hard to watch, but once you step back & let go of the pressure for it to be your responsibility, it will be easier.
What does your husband say about this situation?
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teachkids
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:44 am
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You and yeshiva need to work together to come up with consequences that would be relavent for him and let him feel the effects.
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amother
Lotus
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:45 am
| teachkids wrote: | | You and yeshiva need to work together to come up with consequences that would be relavent for him and let him feel the effects. |
Don't involve the yeshiva, unless the yeshiva is the one that's bringing it up to the parents. If the yeshiva has a problem with this behavior, they will deal with it.
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amother
Stonewash
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:47 am
| amother OP wrote: | | That won’t work because he also doesn’t learn when he s out of yeshiva . Another pet peeve of mine. Even though I don’t think it’s normal behavior. When he s in yeshhh iyH va he learns well BH but when he s home evening shabbos etc he won’t learn at all . He doesn’t have friends in the area and h Ewing learn with my husband . His indifference to yiddishkeit scares me . I have no idea how to handle this. |
Better that he shouldn’t learn for one day and start feeling the consequences of being late. But why does he have to miss at all? He can go late with an Uber (that he pays for.) And you can/should set other consequences for going late or missing school but you need to take yourself out of the waking him up part.
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Chayalle
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:47 am
BTW - I have 5 brothers BAH - and the one that was more chilled as a child and teen ended up being the most serious learner later on. He ended up applying the same zeal he previously applied to sports, games, etc...to his learning. When he was ready.
But Bein Hazmanim, he put in a new storm door for my mother AH, and reupholstered all her kitchen chairs. Oh, I remember my mother worrying what will be with him.....
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amother
Almond
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:48 am
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I have dealt with this issue. You need to let go. It's your son's responsibility. He will come late often enough , he will learn to deal with the consequences,. No yeshiva allows boys to be late on a daily basis. Let him go late and deal with the results. It's the ONLYWay he'll learn
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amother
OP
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 10:07 am
Thank you. I am a rule follower and I can’t understand him but your answers helped me see that I need to let him grow up . It scares me that he s almost able to drive and will iYH get married I a few years and I cants see how he ll take anything seriously but I need to leave go.
As for my husband - he doesn’t really care and will drive him whenever…
Regarding shabbos he won’t go to the later minyan - only the reg minyan 45 mins late .
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giftedmom
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 10:44 am
| amother OP wrote: | My son is 16
He has no sense of responsibility or accountability. I can wake him up 29 times and he just goes back to sleep. He knows he needs to leave at a certain time for his bus but doesn’t care. Any of my other children will realize that they’re late and jump out of bed and rush. This one could care less. He ll come to yeshiva late. Shabbos morning can walk into shul 45 min late no problem and this is with so much stress on my part. It’s an hour after his yeshiva started Shachris and he is still in bed. My blood is boiling. He could care less ( before you ask he is not depressed and really likes yeshiva he just could care less to be responsible) he has no get go . I am a super punctual and responsible person and this is killing me . He usually will come down 20 mins late and expect to be driven ( he can’t walk) but this is a new level
I want to call and discuss it with his rebbi. DH thinks I’m crazy and just leave him alone . I can’t raise such an irresponsible child. He’s almost an adult. I think we must take care of this |
Responsibility is like a ball. As long as you’re holding onto it he won’t. He’ll soon be a man. Time to pass the ball.
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peace2
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 10:45 am
| amother OP wrote: | Thank you. I am a rule follower and I can’t understand him but your answers helped me see that I need to let him grow up . It scares me that he s almost able to drive and will iYH get married I a few years and I cants see how he ll take anything seriously but I need to leave go.
As for my husband - he doesn’t really care and will drive him whenever…
Regarding shabbos he won’t go to the later minyan - only the reg minyan 45 mins late . |
Don't think about marriage just yet. Boys mature A LOT between 16 and 23. Iyh when the time comes he'll have moved past this
Re your husband- make sure to get on the same page as him. It won't work if you won't drive him but dh will. Make it clear that he is on his own if he doesn't wake up in time
And if he goes to shul 45 min late, so be it. It's on his cheshbon, not yours. Chances are if he shapes up during the week because there are consequences for coming late to school, shabbos will follow naturally (it doesn't feel good to be 45 min late to shul, but it can be hard to break out of a cycle of not getting out of bed on time)
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amother
Navyblue
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 10:47 am
I have a son like this. He has two brothers (younger than him, one isn't even quite bar mitzvah yet!) who are NOT like this, so I know it's not our parenting style. It's just him.
One of my younger sons is like you, always early to things. He leaves for shul BEFORE my husband does, even if they're going to the same minyan. And dh generally gets to shul a few minutes before minyan starts, so that means my son gets there 10-15 minutes early. The other usually leaves with dh or around the same time as him. But the older son seems to "not care" and leaves at least when minyan is supposed to start, which means he gets there 5-10 minutes late. Often it's even later than that.
He also learns wonderfully in yeshiva but has a really hard time learning when he's off. Sometimes I can find him a scheduled seder somewhere that offers a nice brunch afterwards and that motivates him.
My dh is a rebbe and has always had the attitude of not pushing him. This son didn't start going to minyan three times a day until like a month before his bar mitzvah when he woke up and realized that he really should. For years before then I was nervous that my dh's laidback attitude meant that he was never going to go to minyan! My other kids, parented the same way, started going three times a day at age 11 or so. This kid just took longer to mature into it. (He also has ADHD, which might contribute.)
He's a good kid. He can stand up to the other kids when they're doing something that makes him feel uncomfortable (picking on another kid in a "joking" way that the other kid doesn't like, etc.). He is good with his siblings when they're toddlers. He has a good sense of humor, is great at convincing people to do things (yes, it's a leadership quality although I'm only starting to see it now), and is artistic. I need to point out these things to myself often so that I am seeing the GOOD parts of his personality and not just the part that bothers me. Maybe try to find your son's good qualities and remind yourself of them often. I found that it helps our relationship a lot, and when our relationship is good, he's more likely to try to push himself a bit than when he feels like I'm always bugging him.
Hatzlacha. Parenting is so hard, especially when the kid is so different from us...
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amother
OP
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 11:38 am
| amother Navyblue wrote: | I have a son like this. He has two brothers (younger than him, one isn't even quite bar mitzvah yet!) who are NOT like this, so I know it's not our parenting style. It's just him.
One of my younger sons is like you, always early to things. He leaves for shul BEFORE my husband does, even if they're going to the same minyan. And dh generally gets to shul a few minutes before minyan starts, so that means my son gets there 10-15 minutes early. The other usually leaves with dh or around the same time as him. But the older son seems to "not care" and leaves at least when minyan is supposed to start, which means he gets there 5-10 minutes late. Often it's even later than that.
He also learns wonderfully in yeshiva but has a really hard time learning when he's off. Sometimes I can find him a scheduled seder somewhere that offers a nice brunch afterwards and that motivates him.
My dh is a rebbe and has always had the attitude of not pushing him. This son didn't start going to minyan three times a day until like a month before his bar mitzvah when he woke up and realized that he really should. For years before then I was nervous that my dh's laidback attitude meant that he was never going to go to minyan! My other kids, parented the same way, started going three times a day at age 11 or so. This kid just took longer to mature into it. (He also has ADHD, which might contribute.)
He's a good kid. He can stand up to the other kids when they're doing something that makes him feel uncomfortable (picking on another kid in a "joking" way that the other kid doesn't like, etc.). He is good with his siblings when they're toddlers. He has a good sense of humor, is great at convincing people to do things (yes, it's a leadership quality although I'm only starting to see it now), and is artistic. I need to point out these things to myself often so that I am seeing the GOOD parts of his personality and not just the part that bothers me. Maybe try to find your son's good qualities and remind yourself of them often. I found that it helps our relationship a lot, and when our relationship is good, he's more likely to try to push himself a bit than when he feels like I'm always bugging him.
Hatzlacha. Parenting is so hard, especially when the kid is so different from us... |
Very similar situations-
I have many other boys kah and those that are old enough are so much more responsible and super punctual. I work very hard on being a. Good parent and having a close relationship to my kids . This child is just quieter and more of his own person ( struggled socially when he was younger too) He is smart and talented in other areas and I just don’t get him. But h-Shem knows how hard I try with him and aside for this one issue we have a really nice relationship/ that’s why I don’t get it
Also he becomes a crazy person when I wake him - he calls me unacceptable names ( idiot, crazy etc) and later claims I never woke him ( when it’s very obvious that I did. We could literally have a conversation)
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mha3484
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Mon, Feb 05 2024, 11:44 am
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My son is a few years younger but getting him up is the worst. I used to be very anti dorm but I have slowly changed my opinion because I think some kids need the peer pressure and being 3 steps from davening in the morning. Is that an option for your son?
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