Complete independence for 18 year old

nicejewishgal

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 11:54 am

I am wondering what you all say. Should an 18 year old (12th grader) be given full full independence? as in letting her fly to iceland herself?

in general - how do you foster independence to your children. How do you balance giving them their independence but at the same time teaching them responsibility and protecting them?

and from how young shud they be given independence

zebra111

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 11:57 am

Interesting question. I was given a lot of independance from a young age (key to the house and no curfew from 12, away with friends over the summer at 16..). No way are my kids getting that much.

amother

Lavender

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 11:58 am

Age appropriate independence. I don't think flying to Iceland by themselves, is safe or age appropriate.
They should be able to come and go as they please, but a timing they need to be home at night is reasonable.
And you need to be able to reach them by phone.

nicejewishgal

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 11:59 am

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

By herself? No friend? Has she flown before? Who’s paying ?

She's a good girl and wants to go (in the summer) she's an adult so is there a problem?

Have no problem funding it, just getting lots of heat that I'm irresponsible. she wants to go with a friend

my question is not only in regards to this. In general - when does independence start?

amother

Lavender

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:01 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

18 is technically still a teen. It's really not responsible or safe to allow an frum 18 year old girl to travel to Iceland by herself. Israel, yes. Iceland, no.
Independence starts from when kids are young, but age appropriate Independence.

nicejewishgal

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:01 pm

amother Lavender wrote:

she's responsible so what is the problem? and she's an adult... 18 year olds typically move outta their home already in the secular world and they already have their independence..

amother

Ghostwhite

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:04 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

I flew to Israel at 17 , on my own, for a summer program. If you think she’s mature and savvy enough to travel on her own I don’t see any issues

amother

Lavender

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:05 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

she's responsible so what is the problem? and she's an adult... 18 year olds typically move outta their home already in the secular world and they already have their independence..

Responsible doesn't mean that it's safe for a frum 12th grader to travel alone. There's no way me or DH would allow it, from a safety POV, even if she's good & responsible. It's not safe for a young girl to travel alone & stay alone at hotels.
Secular 18 year olds that move out, generally don't live alone. They live in a dorm (which is under some supervision), or have roommates.

amother

Lavender

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:06 pm

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

I flew to Israel at 17 , on my own, for a summer program. If you think she’s mature and savvy enough to travel on her own I don’t see any issues

Israel is different.

amother

Crystal

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:07 pm

When I was 18, I flew to Switzerland by myself. I started a year in Israel and flew there and back by myself. Spent the year in Israel traveling all over, by myself. Independence is what she makes of it. If she's ready, I would let her try. My 15 year old daughter has flown by herself several times and is super independent. I taught her to be safe but also do things on her own two feet. I would note that a lot of 18 year olds are dating to get married so if they're old enough to marry, aren't they old enough to experience a little of the world too?

nicejewishgal

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:07 pm

and on a diff note - if I were to tell her she's too young to travel to Iceland on her own, am I a controlling parent?

I'm having a hard time with this whole adult concept. If she's an adult - why the issue? I know ppl who only let their 20 yr olds stay in hotels overnight with a chaperone. that's controlling, no? like why can't you trust your own child? and even if you dont - that's just too bad... let them make their choices and suffer thru them and then learn to be responsible

nicejewishgal

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:10 pm

amother Lavender wrote:

and how may I ask can you protect an 18 year old? what makes you be able to call the police faster than she can in case of emergency?

amother

Sage

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:11 pm

I flew with a friend to Italy at 20 just us. We were followed for a while by a man. Would she know how to deal with this in a foreign country or foreign language? Took at least 20 minutes to lose him, it was a little scary.

Women are not men and they can be beaten and raped. Does she have a legal jewish sounding name? Post Oct 7th that also makes a difference....

amother

Dahlia

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:14 pm

I wouldn’t go to Iceland by myself.

Is she going to join a group? If so, no issue at all. Is she or she an a friend going to backpack? Not a good idea.

FYI, general secular 18 year olds are not nearly as independent as people here seem to think. My coworkers kids either live in dorms or at home and commute. They know their friends, comings and going and pay their bills. The exception are the ones from dysfunctional families with children who had to grow up fast.

DD is 22. She had a college degree and a job in the corporate world. She vacations with friends, but it is a group and she checks in with us.

amother

Lavender

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:14 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

It's not controlling. It has zero to do with trust. It's basic safety that young women shouldn't sleep at hotels by themselves.
It has nothing to do with controlling or trust. It's about safety. Too many crazy stories out there. Even in the secular world, it's uncommon for an 18 year old girl to travel by themselves to foreign countries.

Genius

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:16 pm

If she’s independent why are you funding it?
I wouldn’t let my daughter travel to Iceland by herself as an 18 year old. Independence doesn’t have to mean leaving them hefker.

amother

Brickred

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:16 pm

Lol at the hysteria. Iceland is one of the safest countries in the world. It's not like she's going backpacking through some high conflict country. Also, 18 is an adult, so ues, it would be controlling to tell her she can't (though you could choose not to pay for it. As an adult, she can figure out a way to pay herself if she really wants independence). Now, you can certainly advise. I wouldn't travel alone-alone, but with a friend or two is perfectly safe. Especially to a normal, first world country.

nicejewishgal

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:17 pm

amother Lavender wrote:

Would you not sleep in a hotel yourself either? If you would, why wouldn't you let your daughter?

amother

Honeysuckle

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 12:17 pm

imo independence is not something you are given just because you turned 18..

OP in general growing up was she taught to be self sufficient? has she ever traveled anywhere on her own before?
its not like you can coddle and then bam they turn 18 so now they are legally adults - for sure she should be 100% independant.

I also dont think that looking at secular 18 yr olds independance is a good gauge for our community norms.
generally (in the cirlces I know) an 18 year old girl is still being fully supported by her parents and living at home.

not to say that she cant get the independence but its not a switch that goes on at a certain birthday it my point....