S/o large ratio babysitter

amother

Tuberose

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 7:33 pm

amother OP wrote:

I do not understand how people send to a babysitter with a large ratio. How do you expect your child to not be neglected?? Can you manage 8 babies by yourseLf? Is it humanly possible? How are you ok with your baby screaming all day because the morah cannot possibly take care of your baby and so many others at the same time. Oh wait they probably stop screaming after about a week because they learn to give up. Poor babies.

To respond to OP - 8 newborns is neglectful IF there is no helper (there often is, even if it's the cleaning lady or the babysitter's family).

Eight 12 month olds is perfectly fine. They can play together, be put on a schedule, don't need to be fed or changed on the second.

amother

Wallflower

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 7:48 pm

amother Buttercup wrote:

Non Jewish babysitter split between two babies is marginally more expensive than a frum babysitting group for me. She is paid $18/hr which is $9/hr for each of us. It’s not as exorbitantly expensive as everyone is making it out to be. Frum babysitting groups are $7-8 an hour for smaller groups. These prices are all Brooklyn.

Going rate for non Jewish in Lakewood is $21/h

Ema of 5

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 7:49 pm

amother Electricblue wrote:

Curious how you know to trust her?

With a frum babysitter I don’t have to worry about kidnapping or purposely harming a kid. There have been non Jewish nannies who did do these awful things to kids

There have, unfortunately, been frum baby sitters in the same position. Some have been shut down. Some should be shut down. Some are abusive or negligent. Unfortunately being Jewish is not a security.

Ema of 5

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 7:52 pm

amother Tuberose wrote:

It’s already been suggested that allowing a child to cry is neglect. Suggesting that a child remain in a wet or dirty diaper for even a second must also be neglect.

amother

Electricblue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 8:10 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

It’s much easier to hear about it and find out about it and judge if it’s a frum lady. I once signed up for a frum lady but get an odd vibe as though she was doing it for the money and otherwise had no interest. I switched to another babysitter who really formed a connection with my dc (and me).

The story I posted above was about a Hispanic nanny murdering 2 kids. The family was a wealthy family and I’m sure they had nanny cams.

Ema of 5

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 8:19 pm

amother Electricblue wrote:

You’re talking about REALLY awful things. You’re right, those generally don’t happen at a Jewish daycare. But neglect does. And abuse does. And teaching inappropriate things does. Sending to a Jewish baby sitter or daycare doesn’t absolve parents of doing research and making sure that the environment is safe and healthy for their child.

amother

Chicory

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:05 pm

amother Lightpink wrote:

I understand what she's saying. My baby was in NICU and was in his sterile incubator 95% of the time, no skin to skin let alone being held, fed thru an NG tube etc etc. Obviously there was no choice but tbh he has no attatchment issues or any other lasting effects.

Now lets say a regular full term newborn is treated like this, can you imagine the hue and cry??

I'm not saying that people should knowingly chose an irresponsible babysitting setup, just pointing out that I can see where this poster is coming from.

Just wait a few years...a study that NICU babies are sure to have issues will come out, forcing hospitals to change the way premature babies are looked after.

NICU babies often do have issues down the line due to the reasons they are in the NICU in the first place.

amother

Electricblue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:07 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

Parents should do research and ask for references about every babysitter Jewish or non Jewish.
And neglect is better than murder.

If abuse happens at these babysitters it’s extremely rare and for sure able to sniff it out. I had a babysitter on my block that I just felt was a little too chilled- I didn’t send. You can definitely pick up vibes.

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:11 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

And you missed my point. There are halachos when it comes to giving tochacha. You don’t know that anyone is being neglected. You are assuming, because of research, which didn’t involve Jewish day cares. You are assuming that because there are lower ratios, there is less neglect. You are assuming that your shaming will get people to change what they do. This is not about being “politically correct” it’s about not bullying other people.

It really isnt. Its hard on the internet to hear the tone of someones voice. If you heard me you would understand that I care and am in pain thinking about these babies that I know that are in neglectful childcare situations.
if you agree with the premise and the message of Op and you have a better way to say it, you are welcome to do so.
You are so focused on the moms feelings and you aren't caring enough about the poor babies who don't have a voice. Most moms want what is best for their baby. By helping moms be more aware of the potential pitfalls and reason for concern, not only are you helping the babies but ultimately you are helping the mothers.

There are so many moms who years later have so much guilt and remorse about compromised childcare situations.

If we can prevent just one mother and baby from going through this, op's message will have been worth it.

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:14 pm

amother Chicory wrote:

NICU babies often do have issues down the line due to the reasons they are in the NICU in the first place.

And many babies suffer from being in the NICU environment. Its a very stressful and traumatic environment for babies ( although there has been much improvement in recent years due to the new research that has come out) The lights, noise, lack of enough physical touch and the painful medical procedures.
So on top of the original reason that they were there you have the aftermath effects of the trauma the baby went through.

There are ways to mitigate that trauma and that is mostly with mom, dad or another caregiver being with baby for as much as possible. Kangaroo care is particularly effective and healing for NICU babies as well.

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:18 pm

amother Lime wrote:

If you were making peanuts is it safe to say your husband was able to work for a large sum or were you underpaying the babysitter and then we can start a whole new post on underpaying workers?
Something doesn't add up if you believe that you are in the same situation of mothers who send to or have groups of 5-7 babies/1 yr olds but managed to afford a private babysitter for just 2 children or a private nanny. Whilst earning peanuts.

My husband wasn't making any $ besides for a paltry stipend at the time. This was a real priority to us and we made it work.

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:21 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

I disagree. Anyone who knows that they are sending their 6 week old to a babysitter who has 8+ infants (and yes I personally know plenty of people “in their right mind” like this) should automatically also know that they are sending their infant to a babysitter that neglects children. Because we all know no babysitter can take care of 8+ infants at once. Yet hundreds/thousands of people “in their right mind” do this, just in Lakewood alone.

This. Its a very serious problem. Why is it considered socially acceptable to do this?

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:25 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

I have always been a very passionate voice on this site regarding the detriment of babysitters/high ratios/low quality childcare. But I’ve stayed out of this thread until now because there seemed to be enough passionate voices. But I just way to point out that a baby crying for a few minutes is in no way neglect. It is the natural order of life.

For context, I am a SAHM. I keep my kids home with me till they are about 2.5 years old. My baby’s closest sibling is more than 3 years older than him. Yet still, my baby cries (gasp!) multiple times a day!

- if I’m changing his diaper and he doesn’t like it
- if I’m in the bathroom when he wakes up from his nap and he needs to wait for me to finish
- if I need to strap him into his car seat when he wants to be unrestrained
- if I need to put him down to take something out of the oven
- if one of my other kids needs my help with something and I can’t hold him
- while he’s waiting for me to make him a bottle
- a million other regular normal life scenarios.

No, this doesn’t mean my baby is neglected and no this doesn’t mean I’m a terrible mother.

Some of you are taking this to an extreme, and I’m saying this as someone who happens to
hold pretty extreme (for our community) anti-babysitter sentiments.

Yes, I am familiar with your position and you have been very helpful elucidating the ills of daycare unless they are deemed high quality care which has a very narrow definition.

At the same time obviously life happens and babies cry. At the same time we shouldn't rationalize it and have a position thats this is something Im doing as this is life.

Organically a baby will cry but we should always try to minimize and mitigate their stress.

This isn't something to make light of, rationalize and make lists about almost seeming that you are a bit proud of these occurrences.

amother

Azure

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:27 pm

amother Seablue wrote:

My husband wasn't making any $ besides for a paltry stipend at the time. This was a real priority to us and we made it work.

So ur dh was barely making money. You were giving most of your paycheck to a sitter. How did you pay rent? Food? Bills? Were you getting support? Money had to come from somewhere.

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:28 pm

amother Heather wrote:

If you were earning peanuts and sent your baby to a place with 1-2 babies, most of your paycheck must have gone to the babysitter.

Were you then choosing work over your child? That's neglectful.

I was able to live off the rest of my paycheck. Dh wasn't making a paycheck at the time just a meager stipend. Without the check we wouldn't have been able to pay low rent and necessary expenses. I do wish I wouldn't have to work and and could be home with my baby.