S/o large ratio babysitter

Ema of 5

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:58 pm

amother Seablue wrote:

It really isnt. Its hard on the internet to hear the tone of someones voice. If you heard me you would understand that I care and am in pain thinking about these babies that I know that are in neglectful childcare situations.
if you agree with the premise and the message of Op and you have a better way to say it, you are welcome to do so.
You are so focused on the moms feelings and you aren't caring enough about the poor babies who don't have a voice. Most moms want what is best for their baby. By helping moms be more aware of the potential pitfalls and reason for concern, not only are you helping the babies but ultimately you are helping the mothers.

There are so many moms who years later have so much guilt and remorse about compromised childcare situations.

If we can prevent just one mother and baby from going through this, op's message will have been worth it.

I’m not focused on mom’s feelings over baby’s safety. I’m focused on your messages being lost because your delivery is all wrong. Do you really think that shaming people is going to get them to change? When has that ever worked? If you REALLY want to make a change, more that “even just one person, which I think you and OP really do, you need to change your delivery. I don’t disagree with your message, I just disagree with your delivery. It’s not about caring for one more than the other.
IF I would ever say anything it would be more along the lines of always ask for references, always ask friends/family for recommendations, always find out the rules before committing, ask questions….do your due diligence. I would never accuse mothers who are trying their best of being neglectful. I would never shame mother for their choices.

Last edited by Ema of 5 on Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:00 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

I’m not focused on mom’s feelings over baby’s safety. I’m focused on your messages being lost because your delivery is all wrong. Do you really think that shaming people is going to get them to change? When has that ever worked? If you REALLY want to make a change, more that “even just one person, which I think you and OP really do, you need to change your delivery. I don’t disagree with your message, I just disagree with your delivery. It’s not about caring for one more than the other.
[b]IF[/] I would ever say anything it would be more along the lines of always ask for references, always ask friends/family for recommendations, always find out the rules before committing, ask questions….do your due diligence. I would never accuse mothers who are trying their best of being neglectful. I would never shame mother for their choices.

Please share the message with the correct delivery. Thank you!

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:12 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

But YOU are choosing to share the message, so you need to do it properly. Otherwise, you run the risk of hurting many women.

Yes, will do our best.

I will add that I have never read a thread that had some sort of premise about this and that imas didn't get triggered and defensive.

Its a triggering topic and no matter who the op is and how they write it, posters alway gang up on the op saying she is mom shaming.

Its a defense mechanism to dismiss their own guilt.

They attack the messenger so they don't need to heed the message.

This is an observation I have noticed for years on this site.

There is really no politically correct way to say this without posters crying victim about mom shaming.

This is in regards to multitudes of threads which have been starting by completely different ops throughout many years.

amother

Azure

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:15 pm

amother Seablue wrote:

If so many threads have been posted on this topic why the need to start more?

amother

Azure

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:20 pm

amother Seablue wrote:

I didn't start this thread.
The more threads the more education and awareness.
Why are you so intent on knocking this message? Something to think about.

This thread has been very judgemental. And not much education has been provided, aside from saying if you send to a larger than 1:3 ratio your baby is being neglected. If someone would come up with practical non judgemental solutions I think more people would be open to hearing them.

amother

Trillium

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:20 pm

I haven’t read all 11 pages but here is another point of view.
With my first 2 children I was stressed, not making it month to month, and desperate for babysitters with long hours who weren’t too expensive. I didn’t qualify for CHS, just above the threshold. I did not send to some of the horror story babysitters but I definitely did send to babysitters who I look back at and am ashamed and sad. There is only one explanation. I was desperate.
Starting with number 3 I hired a woman to do a small group in my house. It came with many challenges, and it was a constant struggle to host a group in my basement apartment, but I did it so my baby would have better care.
Fast forward a few years later, the woman kept pushing me to give her more babies, until I was forced to fire her because the group was too big. Now I have the unimaginable luxury bh of having a lady who watches just my baby and cleans.
Some people judge me that a non-Jew watches my baby. I am very secure with her references, my cameras in every room, and I know my baby is getting the best care.
From all of this, I’ve learned not to judge. I’ve learned that people sometimes make decisions out of desperation, and it is my dream that I can one day set up an organization to help subsidize childcare for qualifying babysitters.

Ema of 5

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:21 pm

amother Seablue wrote:

I didn't start this thread.
The more threads the more education and awareness.
Why are you so intent on knocking this message? Something to think about.

The problem is there is no real education going on here. OP did (finally) give a few alternative options. Maybe they would work for some people, which would be wonderful. Studies have not been done involving specifically Jewish baby sitters and day cares. Are they different? Does their care and attention differ? Do their interactions with the babies/children differ? Are the risks in a frum environment the same as in a non Jewish one? Is a non Jewish baby sitter/caregiver with a low ration better than a Jewish one with a slightly higher one? None of these questions can be answered. What exactly is the education that’s being given here?

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:22 pm

amother Azure wrote:

There have been suggestions in this thread and you can share suggestions yourself. If you cared about the babies who are in a compromised situation, you can help with the effort to spread awareness about this.

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:26 pm

amother Trillium wrote:

Its inspiring how see how much you care and how you kept on pivoting towards a far more ideal situation.
Imagine when you where in your younger years of mothering and your baby was in a comprised childcare situation and you stumbled upon this thread. It may or may not have given you the push to rethink your child's childcare.
Sometimes we are so stressed we cant even think we are so busy surviving.
With threads like this it can really make a difference to an overwhelmed mom who really cares about their baby. We can save so much remorse, guilt and most importantly the babies being neglected.

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:31 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

On a simple level the education that Op is giving is to be mindful of childcare ratios. There is much more nuance and assessment necessary of course but thats a good start when it comes to inquiring about childcare. After a certain number of babies its just neglectful to put your baby in a compromised situation.

There is a lot more that is necessary for a baby to have a nurturing and healthy child care experience but that is a simple yet important message to be gained.

In Lakewood in particular. the ratios are a big problem and we the mothers have to do something to make a difference to this generation of babies.

amother

Ultramarine

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 1:47 pm

amother Seablue wrote:

Also, I haven't read all of this thread or the others, but it seems that at least some of these in-home playgroups do not allow parents to come in or to see the space, and instead they bring the child in & out, from & to the parent. To me this would be a huge red flag, but some people seem to think that it's OK.

amother

Dandelion

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 2:12 pm

my sil sent to a babysitter with 1:9 ratio... as a newborn!! her kid is now 16 months and still at this morah.. (lakewood)
I was totally horrified!!! but she couldn't understand why I would be shocked. IMO she isnt super attached to her baby either - but thats a separate thing.

there are many people who really dont know (or dont care??) about neglectful babysitters. ive had some terrible experiences where I had to pull out really fast (and all those came with HIGH recommendations form people I knew!!!) im not super nitpicky im talking about real neglect.
I always tell new mothers to never settle! keep looking until you find a babysitter you trust... its not only about ratios although that is an easy determination many times.
ive also sent my child to a drop in babysitter - where there were permanent babies as well, and when dh went to pick up early (bec we got bad vibes) the babysitter wasnt in the house!! she had gone to the neighbors!! and when he went inside to get our kid.. there were little babies in bouncers on the counter.

WITH all this being said. the way youre coming across as so judgemental and black and white like THIS IS THE ONLY WAY, op, is where I think people are having an issue. of course neglectful babysitters are tragic. I dont think anyone will deny but you are literally telling people that if you dont do it MY way - and dont sacrifice the way I did then you are automatically a terrible parent.

Ema of 5

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 2:18 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

If they don’t let me in the front door, that’s a red flag. If they don’t let me into the daycare area, but I can go into the house AND everything else checks out, I would be ok.