Dd wants ds to be punished

amother

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 8:58 am

Thanks all.

Ds was sleeping when dd went to her room and saw.
I woke him up to yell at him, which I think is punishment.
But yeah, I see it may not be.

Dd wants a major lock on her door. I don't want that because I'm worried about fire safety. Her room is already not on the same floor as the rest of the family, to give her space and privacy, which already worries me in case of an emergency chas veshalom.

Dd absolutely wants whatever ds has to lose, to go to her. Not just a lost privilege. She feels he needs to repay her.

amother

Lemonlime

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 9:02 am

amother OP wrote:

You woke him up to yell at him? He probably didn't know what hit him.
I think you may benefit from some parenting classes geared towards parents pre teens & teens.

In your daughter's room, you can install a door knob with a click lock & the door unlocks when you turn the doorknob from the inside.

Your daughter is most likely reacting so strongly, because she doesn't feel validated by you & that you care about her.

amother

Dandelion

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 9:16 am

WhatFor wrote:

I understand why you might tell a child you're not engaging them when they're speaking disrespectfully, but if your children struggle with actual anger issues, I'm wondering what they're really learning here. If they have emotional regulation issues- which is likely if you think they have ADHD- they deserve to be treated by professionals and possibly medicated if needed. Even if it's not a biological issue, threatening and punishing doesn't really teach them actual skills and is likely to start backfiring by the time they're Op's DD's age or a little older.

I'm not saying this in a judgy way. We all do the best we can, and it sounds like you're ahead of the game in terms of what you saw growing up. I'm just concerned about the long-term effectiveness of what you're describing and am wondering if they would benefit from more actual teaching of skills and exploring with them why they react the way they do . Especially if, as you say, she gets so angry that she's actually harming herself.

I do find this quite judgy and rude. There is no long term effect because I’m reading into my childhood. I think you’re totally missing things. Both dc need to be dealt with, the DS going into a room is immaturity because bothering sisters is fun, while anger is a habit that destroys all in its path. Both need to be addressed.

I’m only discussing the anger.

A parents responsibility is to stay calm and always stay calm in the face of your child’s anger. We should not get angry and yell at someone else to make someone’s anger stop. It will always fail long term. A teen out of control through anger will only think you’ve lost your cool and that you’re as out of control as they feel when you are angry.

Three year olds don’t need medication but thank you. They learn by modeling. Anger runs in my genes so strongly and, once I learned my own, I’ve actually been very effective at teaching my dc how to calm down. I’m actually the least angry parent in my age group I’ve met and we’ve lived in many places and my dc will get there through the same work. And my older dd who has the same sourced issue is older than OP’s and doing beautifully. She calms down much better than her peers. Anger controlling skills is something I’m very good at b”h. My special needs child’s psychologist and psychiatrist has asked other parents to speak to me on this issue for groups.

amother

Lemonlime

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 9:19 am

behappy2 wrote:

Messing up linen and a bean bag are all relatively normal sibling rivalry. I don't think you should be taking demands from a to punish another child. When they are both calm see if they can agree to something. It's not normal for a kid to think she can get her mother to punish a sibling. Not ok to wake a kid to yell at them and your daughter has way too much power.

It's not about him messing up her linens & bean bag per se. It's more about that the daughter feeling that her space is being invaded & that her mother doesn't care about it. So she's trying to take things in to her own hands so her mother should show her some validation & that she cares.

behappy2

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 9:28 am

amother Lemonlime wrote:

It's not about him messing up her linens & bean bag per se. It's more about that the daughter feeling that her space is being invaded & that her mother doesn't care about it. So she's trying to take things in her own hands so her mother should show her some validation & that she cares.

The kid was mad at his sister for doing something to him so he went and messed up her room. He clearly knows she will blow a fuse and he gets a lot of attention for this act. The mother comes in and makes the situation worse by siding with one child and literally taking demands from the child without even hearing the other child out or actually trying to solve the sibling rivalry issue. The whole family could benefit from learning to be more regulated.

amother

Lemonlime

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 9:48 am

behappy2 wrote:

I agree. And I also get the feeling that mom "likes" DS, more then she does like DD.
I wonder if DS is the youngest & mom is babying him & in mom's eyes he can do no wrong, and that DD see's this & feels neglected & unheard.
(Though OP didn't mention that DD did anything to make DS mad.)

amother

Amaranthus

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 10:32 am

My son does similar to your daughter and gets very upset when any of the younger children go into his room. I explain to him that it’s his responsibility to protect any items that is precious or valuable by putting them away on higher shelves or in a drawer, locked in a safe place, etc. Siblings are allowed to walk around and enter a room. They may not touch something that is put away , destroy or mess up any property. If they mess up a bed or make a mess, the sibling has to make it right by fixing it, cleaning it up, etc. I explain to my son that he might one day go to yeshiva or sleep away camp. He will also hopefully get married and he will have to share a room and deal with all kinds of people sharing his space. He can’t freak out and blame someone every time something in his room is amiss. I think your daughter is overreacting. Nothing was damaged. So a sibling touched a bean bag? The sibling can come back, move the bean bag back where it was and apologize. That’s enough of a consequence. I would explain to her that what happened might be wrong , depending on your rules, her reaction is not appropriate for the situation and your consequence was fair.

amother

NeonGreen

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 10:52 am

amother Cognac wrote:

1: DS did something wrong. Not the first time. Probably deserves a consequence this time. Not next time.

2: DD is trying to dictate terms and yelled and acted up also. Probably best to validate and then let her know you wont entertain her behavior either

3: not a fan of him having to pay her. His punishment should have no connection to her. Gives her too much input here. He should lose a privilege of some kind.

4: is there a way for her to secure her room when shes not in there? A hook and eye where he cant reach? Or is he too old? What about this on the outside of her room. Very low key combination lock. https://www.amazon.com/Refrige.....rce=1

This. Also, seems to be a lot of yelling happening between all of you... you need to model better behavior.

amother

Lemonlime

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 10:54 am

amother Amaranthus wrote:

Why don't you value your kids personal space? Why should others just be able to enter & walk around others bedrooms for no reason?? No teen likes when others enter their rooms, and you as a mother are supposed to respect that.
And OP's son messed up her daughters bed, that can feel very invading to a teen. Touching/moving her bean bag can also feel invading to a teen.
She can't exactly put her bed out of reach.....

AlwaysCleaning

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 10:59 am

This might be unpopular and I'll take wtvr tomatoes you all wanna throw at me..... BUT

Her room is sacred and private and he should not be allowed into her room without her permission, especially to mess things up! That's totally inappropriate and you need to address that

Second, idk your parenting choices, but if the option for dd is take matters into her own hands or come to you and you dont do anything, what's stopping her from "punishing him herself"?

You're the parent, you need to set healthy boundaries and show her you value that. Obv she shouldn't be deciding how to parent ds but she has every right to be annoyed at you....

amother

Brass

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 11:08 am

I think my post was too wordy and the main point was lost, but it bears consideration imvho.

Don't punish ds.

Side point, don't ever let a child suggest punishments for a sibling.

Instead, teach them to speak to each other. Everyone is commenting that OP should validate dd. But that's just for practice. The real goal is for the siblings to validate each other.

Dd tells her brother why she's angry. Ds validates her and apologizes. Ds tells dd what made him angry enough to act that way in the first place. Dd validates him and apologize.

Done.

No punishments, and the angry outbursts will diminish.

Yes, this has to be taught and modeled. There are books and classes that can provide guidance.

amother

Amaranthus

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 11:12 am

amother Lemonlime wrote:

Why don't you value your kids personal space? Why should others just be able to enter & walk around others bedrooms for no reason?? No teen likes when others enter their rooms, and you as a mother is supposed to respect that.
And OP's son messed up her daughters bed, that can feel very invading to a teen. Touching/moving her bean bag can also feel invading to a teen.
She can't exactly put her bed out of reach.....

When you have little children and toddlers, they don’t understand what it means not to enter a room or not to touch something that seems very cool or interesting to them. That’s why we need to baby proof our house. A child or teen having a room that is “sacred space” and nobody can ever enter is setting the child up for failure later on. What happens when she marries a husband who goes and comes as he pleases? Maybe he is more careless than her and touches items in the room? Maybe she’ll have a roommate in seminary who brings friends into the room? I think giving your teen an expectation that no one can enter her room is rigid and unrealistic. Some teens in large families share rooms. Many don’t have their own space necessarily. It’s a privilege to have your own space and it’s reasonable for others to respect that space , but to say no one can ever come in and to blow up because a younger child messed around a little bit is blowing the situation out of proportion. It’s fair to have the child fix up what he did and apologize and the daughter could be satisfied with that.

amother

Lemonlime

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 11:14 am

amother Brass wrote:

I agree with this. But if mom sticks up for the son & ignores DD & the situation her son caused, then she's invalidating her daughter & is showing her that she doesn't care about her.
Mom can validate daughter, while at the same time teach her to straighten it out with her brother.

amother

RosePink

Thu, Mar 21 2024, 11:16 am

Might be a hot take but wanted to mention this-
Anger on DDs part can be seen as a positive sign since it means that she’s still trying to communicate and get her needs met.
Now obviously she’s not doing it in a mature and calm manner but it’s still a method of reaching out to her mom in a time of need.

Having her space violated and having no negative feelings expressed might be convenient as it takes up less time and energy on OPs part but it can be a kid accepting the fact that her needs don’t matter.
That is way worse than an outburst in my opinion

I also wanted to comment that there seems to be a lot of yelling as opposed to respectful and effective communication right now. I think the next steps I would take as a family is to work towards a place where concerns and issues are addressed right away but in a manner that is more loving and respectful to all parties.
Yelling can be scary but also ineffective because many people just shut down when yelled at and it doesn’t change the situation much.