Go hear megillah with your kids if you have to!!

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim

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amother

Broom

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:21 pm

amother Mayflower wrote:

She was probably asked to leave after the baal korei had to pause a few times and she couldn't get the hint that way...

I still don't agree that this is worthy of public humiliation. Why couldn't the Rebbetzin quietly approach her and ask her to step out?

Was she wrong? Absolutely. But we all do stupid things sometimes. Even things that hurt others. But just as we expect the woman to think of others, even if it takes some effort, couldn't the shul put in some effort to think of a way to tell her without publicly kicking her out?

amother

Mayflower

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:24 pm

amother Broom wrote:

Probably because the Rebbetzin was at home with the kids and was going to the later reading while her husband, the Rav, was at the first!

I'm sure he didn't say, "Mrs. Cohen! Get out of here with that crying baby!!!!"

amother

Ruby

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:28 pm

There was no rebbetzin there. Her baby was repeatedly crying on and off making it very difficult to hear the leining. She should have left but did not. This was rude and inconsiderate behavior to many many people. 80 people would have had to hear megillah again because of her. If she had no babysitter then she has an excuse. But the other 80 people do not. The rav was 100% right. He politely and firmly asked that the crying baby be taken out of shul. If the woman was embarrassed, she embarrassed herself. And believe me she embarrassed herself by staying inside with the crying baby.

amother

Mayflower

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:32 pm

amother Ruby wrote:

Yes, he absolutely was. And he doesn't need our haskama for his choice.

I'm not sure what the above poster expects in such a situation. In the ideal world sure, it would be nice to get her a private message that she should take her baby outside of the shul. But lets be honest, the Rav isn't playing broken telephone while he is next to the baal koreh and trying to hear the megillah. It was the best choice he could make in the moment. I would expect nothing different, even if I was that woman. I'm not getting a personal invitation mailed to my seat to find an exit

amother

Ruby

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:35 pm

amother Mayflower wrote:

It's a holier than thou attitude. This Rav is a tzadik and a very gentle person. But sometimes a stand must be taken.

amother

Mayflower

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:38 pm

amother Ruby wrote:

It's a holier than thou attitude. This Rav is a tzadik and a very gentle person. But sometimes a stand must be taken.

I agree. Sometimes people are sensitive to a fault.

As a side point, I find these situations so ironic. People expect the Rav and community to be very sensitive to this woman, but no, this woman shouldn't be sensitive to the needs of the community. Go figure.

amother

Ruby

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:40 pm

amother Broom wrote:

This was in middle of leining! Her baby was disturbing and ruining it for almost 100 people! She needed to be told to leave if she could not figure that out on her own. And the language used, by the way, was for the BABY to be taken out.

Librarian

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:01 pm

amother Broom wrote:

amother

Amaryllis

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:45 pm

Librarian wrote:

Last night the very well known Rav and Posek of a very major shul in Monsey stopped mid leining and asked the mother of the crying (on and off) baby to please leave.

Whats ironic about this is that it took place is a shul with a gazillion leanings as well as one that was specifically marketed as kid friendly which was going on at the same time as this leining which was NOT the one this person chose to to attend (so for all those saying there needs to be options etc....in this case there were plenty of available options )

And for anyone casting shade on the rav/baal koreh this was done with as much sensitivity and grace as possible...initially stopped to make a general announcement and only gave a directive for the baby to be taken out when clear softer hints were not taken.

It's so hard to hear on this thread people using such strong negative language against women who genuinely want to be able to fulfill mitzvah properly as being insensitive to those with childcare needs or is.. being all holier than thou ish..

Most of these cases are different from the widow/divorcee sensitivities which usually obv not always involve the babies who make the most noise...but even in those cases the fact that someone shouldn't bring a baby to Leining does not mean that we don't have compassion or empathy...it's not one or the other ...we can feel for those people and still feel like they shouldn't bring crying age babies to a leining.

In many cases it's for convenience- there are options if one is willing to be creative, but it may entail $ for babysitting, going out of comfort zone to a private leinings, missing out on part of an event bc husband or friend alternate taking turns listening to megillah and watching kids which means not done in the same shift.

As someone who makes childcare arrangements which are not always easy and often involve a lot of inconvenience its hard to understand those who knowingly bring (or stay) with babies which then cause more harship to my arrangements and schedule if I need to hear a second leining if chance missed hearing words (no isnt always easy to hear baal koreh in all womens sections) and was not able to fulfill with other conditions such as finger on the place, reading to catch up which is not always feasible depending on the speed of the baal koreh...

No I don't intend to be giving anyone the evil eye!!! But yes it can be stressful to need to figure out how to fit in a second leanings. I do feel bad that someone doesn't have the appropriate sensitivity to not jeopardize things for the others attending the same leaning and in situation where no other options to maybe seek out guidance on what is appropriate in her situation

My 2 cents

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:41 am

I guess out of town communities this is probably tougher, but in most large Jewish communities there are many options. Either shuls or privately in homes. For years I am alternating with my husband until my baby will be old enough to go to shul!

Raizle

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 10:01 pm

amother Sapphire wrote:

Small community? Baalei tshuva? Geirim? Just moved and doesn’t know neighbors? Pioneers and moved to a new area where there are no neighbors? Had a family emergency? Doesn’t want non jewish babysitter and yiddishe ones are not available ?
Come on, enough is enough. I will be the first one to say that kids should not come for megilla or shofar if they cannot be quiet. But I am also very much aware that there are circumstances which they might have to. So they should be ready to leave and we should be more understanding and perhaps help them. I have had lollies and books in my bag and had children ( not mine) sit near me and I helped the mom and the kids kept quiet.

But that's not what is being said in this thread. Op is not saying to be ready to leave. Other posters are suggesting it's ok if they make noise and you miss words.

The problem is everyone is projecting.

In general, yes I have no problem with people bringing their kids so long as if said kids are making noise then please take them out so that the rest of us can hear. If I can't hear them their parent most likely can't beat and therefore what's the point of being there? please don't mevatel the megila reading for the rest of us.

As to your examples Of people who can't, again... Blanket statements.
Geirim and baalei Yeshiva are just as much a part of the community and for those who do you said are pioneers, so what? They are the only ones there? Who is reading the megila. Actually in very small communities it's probably easier to make sure everyone hears the megila.

Maybe the issue is people not speaking up and expressing their needs???

Raizle

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 10:03 pm

amother Aquamarine wrote:

Last year, I brought my kids to Megillah reading. I got scolded before it even started and left. I never want to go back again. I felt awful for having children and bringing them with me for a mitzvah. I didn’t go to Megillah reading this year with my children. Read it to myself at home.

Well that was wrong. There are idiots every where. that shouldn't control you

Raizle

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 10:06 pm

amother DarkViolet wrote:

How about those women who have husband's but they were hired to play at YOUR purim party to make it leibidig? There is not enough time for my DH to watch our children before he needs to go to work to pay the bills. Not everyone has family nearby to help them. Good luck finding a babysitter on purim. Anyone suggesting it has obviously never tried to hire one for purim.

then you use some of the money he earns and get a babysitter.

Cheiny

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 10:07 pm

amother OP wrote:

If you don’t have a babysitter and have no childcare options, please bring your children with you and go to hear megilla!!

Hearing megillah is your mitzvah and nobody should feel like they can’t go to megilla and will skip megilla just because they have kids.

I was at a megilla reading this morning and there was a toddler crying on the mens side for a few seconds. I was surprised but Guess what I could still hear every word and I’m sure the father had a good reason for bringing a small child with him. There were lots of kids on the women’s side who were perfectly quiet.

Nobody should feel like they can’t hear megilla and would miss a mitzva because they are uncomfortable bringing kids to megilla.

Bring your kids and do your mitzvah!

On the other hand, many time kids crying makes people miss a word or more, and then they’re not yotzei the Mitzvah,

mom37

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 10:21 pm

Just a thought... it sounds like people are taking Hashem out of the mitzvah. The mitzvah becomes self serving- it’s all about the person and their spirituality and forget why they are listening to Megillah in the first place! We listen to Megillah because Hashem wants us to. That baby beside you is Hashem’s precious child who He by hashgacha protis placed next to you. How do you think He would like you to respond to those people who brought their child to Megillah? With judgement and anger, or with compassion and love?
Mitzvahs are Hashem serving, not self serving!

amother

Mayflower

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 10:25 pm

mom37 wrote:

Nice... but flawed. The same can be said for so many other situations where it would be totally unacceptable. Hashem asked that we hear every word of the megillah. That is the halacha. Everyone knows this. It's no secret that shuls ask for there to be quiet so everyone can hear every word.

I know this is extreme, but it's like a man taking a seat in the women's section. Yes, he is Hashem's precious child, but the proper response is to ask him to leave.

Cheiny

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 10:46 pm

amother Lotus wrote:

Ugh I feel so bad for that mother. Is public shaming really warranted? Feels very wrong to me.

Obviously if the Rov only did it after the baby had been crying on and off before then, she should’ve taken the baby out before he was finally forced to ask her to.

Cheiny

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 10:58 pm

amother Broom wrote:

And how would you suggest that DURING THE MEGILLA READING the Rov have a conversation with his Rebbetzin, who’s in the women’s section, again DURING THE MEGILLA READING, to ask her to tell the woman whose baby is disturbing the leining, to please leave?

Would that be less humiliating, even if the message could be conveyed that way?

mom37

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 11:02 pm

When people think it’s ok for a fellow Jew to miss Megillah because they have children with them, and that their hearing Megillah is more important than that other person, this is a problem.
There’s a big lack of Ahavas yisroel here. The goal should be to care about our fellow Jew’s physical and spiritual well being more than our own.

amother

Cantaloupe

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 11:16 pm

mom37 wrote:

If a respected rav stopped the reading to ask a mother to take her crying baby out, that is a clear indication of the correct halachic approach.

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