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Comparing usa to Israel on here
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 9:57 am
Why do I always see this funny argument here
Someone from USA says standards are so high
Immediately Someone pipes up huh in Israel nothing like this that's why I love Israel
Then Someone else says are you kidding Israel is just as high as usa what are u talking about etc

Why do Israelis feel uncomfortable acknowledging that yes Some people in Israel live on a high standard just like usa?
What's the big deal?
We have similar problems in this area in both countries Why the need to deny it?
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amother
Yolk


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 10:12 am
I think people who made Aliyah from the US to Israel are more likely to like simpler standards. Maybe they wanted to get away from all the materialism. Trying to get them to say that standards are just as high in Israel is just going to annoy them.

Besides, especially outside Anglo bubbles, materialistic standards in Israel are lower than in the US. Most people have less income, houses are smaller, cars are smaller and more expensive and many don't have a ton of spare money to spend on frum fashion statements.

Personally, I think that's rather a good thing because, I'll be honest, I do tend to look down on what is called high standards. To me that's empty consumerism and the useless competition of those who have nothing real to do with their lives other than wasting money. But to each their own.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 10:20 am
amother OP wrote:
Why do I always see this funny argument here
Someone from USA says standards are so high
Immediately Someone pipes up huh in Israel nothing like this that's why I love Israel
Then Someone else says are you kidding Israel is just as high as usa what are u talking about etc

Why do Israelis feel uncomfortable acknowledging that yes Some people in Israel live on a high standard just like usa?
What's the big deal?
We have similar problems in this area in both countries Why the need to deny it?

People talk about what they know.

In my DL community, there seems to be far less materialism than what I see US "in-town" posters discussing here. I suppose you can find some people here who are into brand names and competitively redoing their kitchens every 3 years and fancy sheitels and whatnot, but it is far less common here.

I don't deny that such people may exist here, but they are such a minority that is is far easier to avoid this sort of lifestyle if you don't care for it.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 10:28 am
amother Yolk wrote:
I think people who made Aliyah from the US to Israel are more likely to like simpler standards. Maybe they wanted to get away from all the materialism. Trying to get them to say that standards are just as high in Israel is just going to annoy them.

Besides, especially outside Anglo bubbles, materialistic standards in Israel are lower than in the US. Most people have less income, houses are smaller, cars are smaller and more expensive and many don't have a ton of spare money to spend on frum fashion statements.

Personally, I think that's rather a good thing because, I'll be honest, I do tend to look down on what is called high standards. To me that's empty consumerism and the useless competition of those who have nothing real to do with their lives other than wasting money. But to each their own.


Yes this makes sense
They seem offended! Now I understand why
(I'm not. American , I'm European)
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 10:32 am
But you see this on the American side too.

Someone says the standards in America are so high.
Someone else will pipe up and say, "No they're not. No one in my neighborhood would ever do/have/partake in ABC."
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amother
Cyclamen


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 10:34 am
The people who are saying that there isn't this peer pressure etc in Israel could very well be living in an area that doesn't have. In my neighborhood, in the area I'm living in (Israeli crowd, very few English speakers) there is some peer pressure to an extent. Not at all like where my sister's live, more center Jerusalem where you are really living an Anglo life but happen to be in Israel.
In a different part of the neighborhood that I live in there is NO peer pressure. I'm shocked how simple they are all happily living and it's amazing. They are putting on clothes I prob wouldn't even use for Pjs. Most have 1 wig that they wear Shabbos, simcha and school events. Everyone walks around in a scarf or snood. My area also does, I go out in a scarf as long as I'm in my neighborhood, the minute I plan on leaving I put on a wig the one time I unexpectedly left and was in a scarf I felt so out of place. I feel really boujee having a weekday wig and a Shabbos wig, and neither are top brands. On here I'm seeing that when people ask advice on which wigs to get their engaged daughter they are told 3!!!!
So yes, if you live the Israeli style there is a very big chance there is no peer pressure at all.
RBS is not Israeli. My sil who grew up in Israel was only planning on the one wig and for the 2-3 yrs she was living amongst Israelis was very happy in the one wig. It didn't take long after she moved to a more Anglo area in RBS to buy her 2nd wig and 1.5 yrs later she is already talking about getting a 3rd. No they can't afford it as they have asked us for maaser to cover the bills but there is peer pressure, of course not the same level as in romema etc.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 10:38 am
Overall the standards are lower. I've been here for 15 years, I'm half Israeli and I've visited almost every major city, and many kibbutzim and moshavim, probably at least 50.

I've lived in the north, center, and south. I have friends all over the country, and I am friendly and observe what I see and meet people when I travel.

Overall standards ARE lower. Even those who own a large home on a moshav, not religious, have less kids and lots of money to spend just live a more chill lifestyle.

Yes people do travel abroad, but most people travel local and hike our land, many camp. Most people do not own a coat that is $500 dollars, and they aren't comparing their wardrobe constantly to everyone else. They don't feel the need to buy an entire wardrobe from scratch every season for every person in the household.

Weddings are anywhere from nature to fancy halls and there's no judgment about what you wear or where you go. There's much much less peer pressure in general.

People do what they can afford and overall do not feel bad about not being able to do more, they don't go into debt in order to buy expensive clothing. Etc.
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amother
Butterscotch


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 10:40 am
It's very community dependant but I imagine also the actual numbers are different. Even someone in a fancy anglo community in Israel may live in an apartment, or even the best houses here are still far smaller than in some places in America. Things might be materialistic , but on a smaller scale altogether.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 10:51 am
amother Blonde wrote:
Overall the standards are lower. I've been here for 15 years, I'm half Israeli and I've visited almost every major city, and many kibbutzim and moshavim, probably at least 50.

I've lived in the north, center, and south. I have friends all over the country, and I am friendly and observe what I see and meet people when I travel.

Overall standards ARE lower. Even those who own a large home on a moshav, not religious, have less kids and lots of money to spend just live a more chill lifestyle.

Yes people do travel abroad, but most people travel local and hike our land, many camp. Most people do not own a coat that is $500 dollars, and they aren't comparing their wardrobe constantly to everyone else. They don't feel the need to buy an entire wardrobe from scratch every season for every person in the household.

Weddings are anywhere from nature to fancy halls and there's no judgment about what you wear or where you go. There's much much less peer pressure in general.

People do what they can afford and overall do not feel bad about not being able to do more, they don't go into debt in order to buy expensive clothing. Etc.


I don't know how to bold your post but I lived in Israel (yerusalyum-har nof givat shaul sanhedria and ramot and bet shemesh for year )
Many things your wrote here are NOT accurate at all
There is definitely judgements and peer pressure maybe not as much as usa but can't say that sweeping statement for whole country It's really not accurate!
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amother
Clover


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 11:17 am
I don't think you can argue the fact that the base standards in Israel are lower. Smaller homes (apartments) are normal and common. Nature trips more than amusement parks. Willingness to take public transportation.

Sure there are high standards and peer pressure in many places, but the baseline is different.
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 11:36 am
amother Clover wrote:
I don't think you can argue the fact that the base standards in Israel are lower. Smaller homes (apartments) are normal and common. Nature trips more than amusement parks. Willingness to take public transportation.

Sure there are high standards and peer pressure in many places, but the baseline is different.
*Willingness* to take public transportation? Speechless
If you don't own a car, what alternative is there? Expensive taxis?
Public transportation as a huge privilege and no worries about parking Smile
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amother
White


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 11:51 am
Because it's simply not true. Also, sometimes it's jealousy.

I don't have a cleaner, a porch, a car, buy only basic food items, no fun outings, minimal clothing, etc etc

When I go to tri state area very often, honestly, I wish I could buy pretty clothes, meat, chicken, cheeses, hot peppers and olives, own a car, have a yard and someone else cleaning my floor and ironing my husband's greying shirts.

And we're considered pretty standard in the neighbourhood where I live, some people actually assume we're rich because we're better off than many neighbours and friends.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 11:58 am
amother OP wrote:
I don't know how to bold your post but I lived in Israel (yerusalyum-har nof givat shaul sanhedria and ramot and bet shemesh for year )
Many things your wrote here are NOT accurate at all
There is definitely judgements and peer pressure maybe not as much as usa but can't say that sweeping statement for whole country It's really not accurate!


That are all places I assume you lived with Americans, young Americans, many living in daddy credit card, correct? How many were not getting ANY support?

There's more judgment in American communities, but if you travel outside of those bubbles it's nonexistent in so many places. It's so beautiful to see. When we go on hikes up north bein hazmanim and I meet people from all over the country they all dress differently, different brands, looks, head coverings, it's not like in the USA when you go on a chol Hamoed trip and everyone is wearing the same $500 dollar coast no matter where they are from more or less.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 11:59 am
Bnei Berak 10 wrote:
*Willingness* to take public transportation? Speechless
If you don't own a car, what alternative is there? Expensive taxis?
Public transportation as a huge privilege and no worries about parking Smile


Yes this. Who is funding my car?
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amother
Darkblue


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 12:00 pm
I live in Israel and live in a pretty high standard but it’s still nothing compared to what there is an America. I don’t feel any pressure to make a fancy. Simcha or have a certain brand of clothing. I’m not saying there’s no pressure but compared to what people talk about in America. It’s just not the same and I live in RBS in the very American area. Yes, some people have a lot of money, and some people don’t, but most of us are all friends with each other and honestly sometimes you can’t even really tell who has money and who doesn’t. I’m from the Midwest, so things are pretty simple there too. I just don’t think that the level of keeping up with each other is on the same level. When are you moving to Israel? You’re definitely gonna be here with a certain mindset.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 12:14 pm
I just find things here more laid-back and less judgy.

For example, almost everybody in our community can afford to buy his/her children new clothing, but we all use hand-me-downs and pass clothes along to other families as needed, because why waste perfectly good clothing that still has some wear in it? (If there are no takers, it goes to tzedaka)

I get the impression that such practices would not fly in many US communities because the clothes would not be the latest fashions, and thus socially unacceptable.
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amother
Clover


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 12:24 pm
Bnei Berak 10 wrote:
*Willingness* to take public transportation? Speechless
If you don't own a car, what alternative is there? Expensive taxis?
Public transportation as a huge privilege and no worries about parking Smile

That was my point. In America, taxis and Ubers are not considered luxuries.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 12:26 pm
amother Clover wrote:
That was my point. In America, taxis and Ubers are not considered luxuries.

In many parts of the US there is no public transportation, so taxis and Ubers, or owning a car, are a necessity.

Also, automobiles and gasoline are much more expensive here, so taxis are more expensive (I think -- I didn't take too many taxis when I lived in the US).
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amother
Hibiscus


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 12:42 pm
I've lived in both places. What I can say is this

1. There is a growing class of Israelis that are very into materialism. They throw fancy simchas, have fancy wigs, take luxury European vacations and have stunning apartments. It's all smaller than in America but the salaries are also about half of what they are in America, so it all evens out. MANY Israelis live in the minus and somehow are still making fancy shabbos meals every week. Maybe there isn't a pressure, idk, but in my experience there is definitely a growing materialism in Israel that wasn't there before. All of the major American Jewish clothing stores have come to Israel, and trust me when you walk in you hear plenty of hebrew!!! So stop kidding yourself that in Israel it's all so pashut and simple. Bc it's not!

I knew someone with a boy in a very popular school in rbs who said she had to make this boy a bar mitzvah party with a dj bc that's what all his friends were doing. My old neighbor had cousins in Jlem and she said the wedding she went to was so over the top she couldn't believe her eyes.

Or my personal favorite, people in neighborhoods pushing fancy strollers, buying fancy clothes, etc. But they are also taking tzedaka for "needy families in EY"

2. At the same time, the Israeli materialism will never reach the level of the in town materialism but that makes sense, considering salaries and cultural differences.

Go to bnai brak, jlem, rbs, rananana, herziliya and Northern tel aviv...you see plenty of materialism there charedi, DL and chiloni

It will never be America BUT to deny it doesn't exist isn't true!
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amother
Cherry


 

Post Wed, Mar 27 2024, 1:14 pm
American materalism is on a much larger scale then anywhere else in the world.

I once worked for a guy who serviced the 1% vacationing in Israel. His attitude has always been focus on americans, ignore Europeans, South Africans, Australians, South Americans - because no matter how wealthy the non - american is the amount they spend will never compare to the much less wealthy american.

His only exception where the French - they also aew into materilism - but he would still say - american over french, we make more money that way.

But obviously, just like the rest of the world, Israel is becoming more materialistic. It just is not comparable. The fancy, into materialism, israeli's you are talking about are not living like the american equivalents. Even the Israeli celebrities' don't live such a luxurious lifestyle comparatively.

There is a reason Yair Netanyahu is hanging out in Florida....
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