I’m that broke…

amother

Cyan

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 2:48 pm

amother Lemonlime wrote:

I didn't attack anyone, and certainly not you. I'm sorry you took my opinions personally. It sounds like you think you have the right to express yourself as nastily as you like. I feel sorry for you that you think that way. Kollel is as kollel does. Signed, a post kollel wife who actually lived on kollel standards, and still does, and sees the difference in middos this engenders.

You actually did. You maligned a whole group of people.
I heard in the name of a well-known Rav that speaking badly of a whole group of people is much worse than speaking badly about one. I may have to ask mechila from you for my response to your attack, but you need to ask mechila from everyone that fits that category.
And contrary to your beliefs I deserve to have my husband sit and learn Torah even if I don't conform to your standards. I believe that Torah was my birthright given to me by Hashem not by you. I do not allow you or anyone (aside from Rabbanim that I follow and mentors that I respect) to impact the choice of what I do.
I personally believe that the hardest part of learning Torah in todays generation is bearing the criticism from people that want to determine how my Torah learning looks.
You may say you are a post-kollel wife, yet I have met many non-kollel wives at all whose husbands went to work right away and they are machsiv learning to such a high degree. They don't believe in giving "standards" and telling you whether or not you deserve your husband to learn. They believe in learning. So I don't believe only those whose husbands are in kollel or post kollel are the ones who are machsiv Torah.
And you are the one that began the attack so I'm not sure what "difference in middos" you see...
Either way- I'm assuming you are going to have a nasty response again so I'm not sure why I'm bothering...

mudpies

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 2:51 pm

Mishnas Yosef is a neighborhood weekly sale that sells food and other items at good prices, usually lower than what you'd find in stores. There is a weekly pick up area. It's an Israeli situation, so be ready, but once you get used to it, it's really not bad and can save you a lot on your grocery bill. We buy almost all of our weekly basics on there and it saves a lot both $ and time.

https://new.mishnatyosef.org/

I don't think it's bad if she tries to cut back on food. It doesn't mean OP will do anything extreme or unhealthy, especially right now in her first trimester. But she said she has no clue how to budget on food, so what's wrong with her becoming conscious of prices and planning/budgeting accordingly? She can still eat perfectly plentiful and healthy foods even if they aren't as costly as the ones she's used to.

kugelEater

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 3:03 pm

mudpies wrote:

Yesss! Mishnat Yosef prices are not to be believed!! Many items, especially lettuce, are fully half the price of even osher ad.

Ellie7

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 3:26 pm

With all due respect, you don't sound like you're actually trying to save. You don't know what food costs or about special sales or grocery deliveries. It didn't occur to you to cut back on individually wrapped snacks. You don't need to meet with a rabbi. You need to meet with a financial advisor.

I understand you don't want to post numbers, but can you post what you typically spend on so people can help identify places where you can cut? (I don't live in Israel, so I'd be no help.) What is included in necessities? (Paper goods, takeout, clothing?) If you truly want to live this life, you need to:

1. Identify all the places you can save and then create a workable budget.
2. Stop looking enviously at how other kollel families live. You need to come to terms with the money you'll have and how that will mean you have to live.

amother

Begonia

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 3:48 pm

Fellow Kollel wife (in America). Bh we didn’t get to the point of empty account but at some point early on we realized that we did not have a handle on our spending and we weren’t saving at all. Best thing we did was get free financial coaching from living smarter Jewish. They know frum life and Kollel life and it is so empowering to be on top of our finances and feel secure that we’re being responsible for the future. Highly recommend getting connected with them and getting guidance. Hatzlacha!

amother

Magnolia

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 3:49 pm

amother OP wrote:

I really should just go to osher ad/shaare revacha only, but I don’t have any near my neighborhood and it’s just so so hard to get there and shlep everything back on a longgg bus ride. But I should. I just don’t know if I have the ability. (I am in my first trimester and extremely nauseas and weak always).

Is it illegal?? Then how do they all get away with it?!

Please listen to this carefully. It's very important.

You say you want to stay in this lifestyle long-term. Beautiful.

If that's your goal, focus on your goal.

Many people leave this lifestyle because they need more money. But even more people I know left because they burnt out.

Your energy is worth something. I know you are idealistic. I know you want to do everything. But you need to stay within the limits of your energy. Just like you have a limited amount of money, you have a limited amount of energy. Remember that. Give the same careful consideration to your time and energy and health that you give to your money.

Learning to live a balanced, healthy lifestyle is the key to avoiding burnout. If you're in this this for the long haul, you need to keep that in mind.

And yes, this applies when you go to the rabbi too. If he is a wise man and not just a learned one, he will recognize this. You need to say, I need this for my mental health. I need that for my shalom Bayis. Any wise man has seen enough idealistic young couples crash and burn because they didn't recognize or wouldn't admit the limits of their abilities.

Having limits and weaknesses is not something to be ashamed of. It's part of being human. Hashem wants us to acknowledge who we are and what we can do. Because he wants us to live a happy and healthy life. And if you want to succeed in an idealistic life long term, it's going to have to be with happiness and emotional health.

I am sure you are familiar with the mishna at the end of Avos: This is the way of Torah, eat bread with salt, drink water in measure... If you do this, you are happy and all is well with you. You are happy in this world and all is well with you in the next world.

Living with less for the sake of learning is a beautiful thing. But, as the mishna points out, it needs to be done in a spirit of Joy. If your circumstances start extinguishing that Joy and taxing your mental health, then think hard about what it is Hashem really wants from you.

amother

Daisy

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 3:50 pm

Sweet OP . I feel your pain
I’ve been so broke:
I wore maternity underwear and I wasn’t pregnant (safety pins involved )
I made ‘ gefilte fish’ out of stale bread
I served yeshiva leftovers repurposed for supper
I took home my mothers pesach left overs
Went to the public library cause I couldn’t afford to run the AC and it was ninety degrees.
I called up a lady who owed us some tutoring fees and told her I can’t make shabbos if she doesn’t pay us. The fridge was empty the freezer was empty and the bank account was empty.
It’s really hard. And the rich friends aren’t helping. I remember having a MELTDOWN when a yeshiva was running a Chinese auction and each prize related to building your own home .
Baruch Hashem life got a little ok a lot was financially. But I’ve never forgotten those days.
I know that limud hatorah mitoch hadchak is a very special zechus, especially when you have no safety net.
Ok that’s all I have to say

amother

Butterscotch

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 3:56 pm

OP I supported a husband theough 5 years of kolel, by myself. We reused sandwich baggies, didnt dream of using "brand name" skippy or jif peanut butter, and we never went out to eat or had cleaning help. A walk in the park with cookies was how we unwound (and it was beautiful!)
I bought dollar store lipstick and washed and set my own shaitel even though I didnt know how and I was aware that it didnt look great.

So believe me, I understand mesiras nefesh for kolel, and I understand how much you value it.

(Also, no im not from a different generation of years past. Im in my low 30s)

But I want to tell you this.
My good friend recently confided in me that shes supporting her son and DIL in yerushalayim. And that while she barely makes ends meet at the end of each month and is working like crazy to pay all the bills, this couple is going out to eat on a constant basis, has one of the fancier apartments in the best neighborhood, buys foods with expensive ingredients like steak, salmon etc constantly need "more money" for fancy yomtov wardrobes twice a year, yomtov jewelry, gifts etc, etc etc

So the kolel couple is living on a higher lifestyle than the parents. And the few times they timidly brought up the couples spending habits, each one was "justified" by the couple (sari gets so tired from work, thats why we keep going out to eat at restaurants, sari is such a good wife she deserves a new expensive necklace for pesach".)
And the parents are so scared of causing shalom bayis issues with the young couple, that they just clam up and keep paying the bills. (Dont get me started)

Ask yourself-if you knew which couple this was, would you still feel pressured to live on their lifestyle? Or would you hold your head up higher as you forgo the pre-checked lettuce and ground beef, and feel more confident in your lifestyle, happy its not you who is behaving like a spoiled brat at the expense of her exhausted parents?

Bottom line. Stop looking. You never know the whole picture. You have what you need, now go do ratzon Hashem.

alibaba1

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 4:01 pm

If you manage to do a monthly or biweekly shopping at dhaarei revacha, while menu planning and only follow your shopping list I think your budget will already look different. Use one of those scanners and u will know exactly where u r up to.
Then dairy products u can buy at ur local makolet and mishnat yosef for produce.
Drink tap water or get one of those filters.
Can you get a discount for Arnona?
Can you cut down on cleaning help, take out, babysitter, wash your own sheitel , use hand me downs or 70% sales for the kids?
Extra pizza is 24.90 for a pie If you ever need a treat for take out. Capuchinno has ice coffee's for 7 shekel. Dont use disposables.
The less u go into shops the better.
No taxi's, only use doctors from the kupat cholim. Can you sell some stuff you dont need anymore on yad 2?
You got this you will bez'h come out stronger!

amother

Hosta

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 4:12 pm

Op, I'm so sad for you. It sounds really stressful and upsetting to have to be under financial strain. My advice: when your check comes in cash it and make a monthly budget where all of it should go. The cash should go into labeled envelopes to be spent as needed. One for bills or some of the debt first. A food envelope, a babysitter envelope, bills envelope, mikvah, cleaners, rent, etc. if there is leftover it can be used for treats or saved. That's the way to be responsible about the money you have. I hope one day you are comfortable enough not to have to worry.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 4:24 pm

I am sorry if I'm repeating some things that others have said. It seems that you have 2 issues--getting through the current tight period, and figuring out how to make things work long term.

1. There is an organization called Living Smarter Jewish that does free financial coaching and helps people build monthly budgets. You can contact them and they''ll connect you with a coach. Since you don't seem to have much experience with budgeting (and you are not alone in that!), this will be a good resource for you.

2. If you have $7K in the bank, and literally nothing to eat (or just pantry staples, but nothing fresh), you can and should give yourself $100 and buy the food you need. I agree that you shouldn't be pulling from savings to pay for date nights, but you also shouldn't actually be hungry while you have money to re-stock.

3. A lot of grocers reduce their prices on produce and baked goods (and maybe even meats and chickens) at the end of the day or early in the day. There's no shame in looking at "sell by" dates--if you see something that has to be sold in the next few hours, ask if they can reduce it. Cook it or freeze it quickly and it's completely fine.

4. I find that homemade soups really round out a meal. The meal takes longer, the soup is filling, etc. You can use cheap veggies to make soup, and you can throw in a can of beans or some legumes to thicken it and make it heartier. You can serve chunky or blended.

5. If you pay your own electric/heating bill, turning the thermostat up or down a degree or two will make a big difference without causing discomfort. Wash your sheets and towels in cold water. Be sure you turn off lights when you leave a room.

6. When you start paying more attention at the grocery store, you might see that buying large containers of yogurt and snacks is WAY less expensive than individual bags. It's an easy way to cut back. Powders to make drinks (ice tea mix, lemonade mix), are much less expensive than soda and bottled drinks.

7. Can you sell any old clothing that's in good condition?

8. Check out app.usertesting.com . It's legit.

amother

Mustard

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 5:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

No. We want him to be doing this forever if possible. Please don’t judge that or say harsh words. I knew that we would hit tight times at some point and have to figure out where to go from here. But we’ll get through it. Not just leave this life right when it starts to get hard.
I have enough money coming in that I should be able to cover my expenses, I just am not. The basics are EXACTLY what we get, but then there are some extras that add up.

I have to figure out how to cut back on groceries and utilities, but I’m having such a hard time knowing how to do that. I didnt know that lettuce was something people cut out! Just thinking about cutting back on food makes me cry.

Here in israel, most groceries don't have prices on all the items and I dont even know how much they cost till I'm at the counter.

A few tips (for ref, living in Israel for 20 yrs with a husband in kollel)

If you're shopping in a grocery without prices, it's an expensive place. Do your shopping either on the sales like mishnatyosef or in a big chain store like shaarei revacha not in your local makolet. I like mishnatyosef because you can sit at home and see the prices and work through what you can and can't afford. (eg. lettuce in makolet will be about 6 shekel. In Shaarei Revacha 3.90, on mishnat yosef 2.90)
Strongly recommend if you want this to work long term that you consider moving to an area where other people are living on budgets more similar to yours. It makes such a difference.
You need to budget extras into your budget. Expenses are never exact. I would budget 500 shekel per month for extras. Max, if you don't use it, you've gained. Chances are you will use it.

amother

Linen

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 5:11 pm

amother DarkRed wrote:

You sound spoilt
Many non kollel couples hardly eat out, can't afford babysitters and would never buy expensive pre checked lettuce. Budgeting when shopping for food is a given for them.
Never get hand-outs as don't qualify for kollel related charities

I'm not sure how helpful it is to call someone spoilt. Especially someone who is trying to learn how to live within her means and never has had to do that before.

Can you make a coal fire or iron your clothes with a flatiron? How about washing clothes in the river? Can you milk a cow? Can you harness a horse? No? Goodness, you're so spoilt.

amother

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 5:16 pm

amother Linen wrote:

Thank you. Aside for the fact that she made assumptions on her own. That I was buying pre checked lettuce? That I get handouts? That I eat out often? ( I cant even remember the last time we ate out. My birthday 9 months ago that my parents sent me money for a restaurant?)

I didn’t want to respond to that poster. But thank you for doing it for me.

amother

Royalblue

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 5:17 pm

OP just so you know that prices in food here has shot up very high. Don't feel bad. Maybe you can cut back on a few things but the prices are high and families are noticing the difference. It's hard schlepping around if you are expecting. Maybe your husband can go in the evening/Fridays/other times that does not take away his learning. How far is Sharei Revacha from you? Maybe for now you can buy online. The prices are a bit more but if you don't feel well then the story changes. Make your list, stick to it and only buy bread/eggs/ milk during the week. The other canned goods and things are online. you will shop less.

amother

Magenta

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 6:01 pm

I was in a similar situation.
we were using savings for basics, and wasnt sure where to cut back as we werent living the high life.

first off, its really hard! and it does seem like a lot of people around you are swiping their daddys card. maybe yes, maybe no. but it doesnt help you.

I worked with RSK in america. it was really really helpful. they taught me how to budget and make decisions in a very practical way. I actually feel more free and richer, because I know how much money I have to spend.

I also find, its worth it to take a citicar or mycar, and shop in shaarei revacha over the makolet or yesh.

planning a monthly (or weekly) menu and shopping once a week saves a lot.

also, its ok to take minimal amounts of money from savings for basics if you need.
I blew through savings before learning to budget. but now, if I have an unexpected expense, something extra, I take from savings, I write it down and whenever I have a little bit extra I slowly pay it back.

good luck! hugs!
and the best Israel advice I ever got - "all the other ladies looking super put together, have things going on at home just like you do!: