S/O social suicide

Cheiny

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 11:48 am

amother OP wrote:

I'm wondering if people are just thinking that everyone else will judge them while in reality the people supposedly judging think everyone else is judging.

I think anyone who judges others, especially based on clothing, is horribly shallow, lacking in character, definitely insecure and a whole lot more… I personally think it’s ridiculous to throw out a ton of money on kids’ clothing because they outgrow it so quickly. There’s plenty of great stuff you can get so that they’re nicely dressed without breaking the bank. The whole thing with designer clothing for little kids is pathetic, IMHO. It screams insecurity. “Look at me! I paid lots of money for this! I can afford this! I have great taste!”

AlwaysGrateful

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 11:59 am

snooper86 wrote:

I will judge you if your kids are wearing mismatched, torn or dirty clothes. Otherwise especially if you shop well no one has a clue where it’s from and every company has cute stuff.

Fine, judge me.

My kids sometimes spill breakfast on themselves thirty seconds before carpool comes. Or ten minutes before carpool comes but they do NOT want to change. My preschooler often wears mismatched clothing because it takes about two minutes for her to choose her own clothing and dress herself and about twenty minutes and lots of frustration from both of us if I try to choose her clothes or dress her. Same with my elementary schooler and nicely brushed hair -- our relationship suffers if I try to make it look nice, so it sometimes looks messy and I shut my mouth.

Oh, and most of our clothing is hand-me-downs. I refuse to spend money, and more importantly, time, buying new clothing when they have clothing that they like and that would go into the garbage otherwise. I don't care if they look cute, or well-dressed. They need to be wearing clothes that fit and are comfortable. And I guess I'll add not clothing that I would be against hashkafically (so I've thrown out clothes that have words I'm not comfortable with across the front, or clothes for a toddler that look like they belong on a boy-crazy teenager).

I have priorities. My children looking "perfect" is not one of them. I prioritize my relationship with them. If that means that the people around me are judging me for it, too bad for them. My house also doesn't look perfect. It's clean enough to be functional and not full of germs, but if you came to visit you might judge me for that too.

My priorities are that I have a strong relationship with my kids, that I am able to stay calm and parent them from a calm place, and that I teach them good middos and hashkafos.

Saying "I don't judge people who wear the wrong brands, only people who don't look put together" seems funny to me. It's okay to judge externals as long as it's not the name on a tag?

Cheiny

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 12:05 pm

amother Ebony wrote:

I never understand people who say they don't judge by clothing. its pure lies...
I wont think LESS of someone who dresses differently. but what you choose to wear and how you dress your kids does say something.
it is a first impression... like it or not.

human beings judge instinctively (its not necessarily a bad thing always) and while you shouldnt assume you know everything about a person just from one look, theres no denying that it does say something about you.

I dont think that dressing in carters or whatever says anything negative abouta child/mom. but if you live in a community where thats not the norm... then dont cry when people may initially look at you funny. thats life.

I couldn’t disagree more. You’re projecting your own views onto others and I certainly hope and choose to believe you’re in the minority. Judging by clothing? That’s not only terrible but it shows a true lack of priorities and proper middos. It’s completely shallow. How does shelling out money (worst of all, when people can’t afford it), wasting time selecting clothing they believe will make people take notice and ooh and aah at their kids, and showing off, translate into being something that’s in any way worthy, desirable or that it makes them better than those who don’t? Again, it just shows lack of self esteem and a need to impress others. Those issues and lack of middos should be worked on, not indulged and furthered.

Cheiny

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 12:07 pm

snooper86 wrote:

I will judge you if your kids are wearing mismatched, torn or dirty clothes. Otherwise especially if you shop well no one has a clue where it’s from and every company has cute stuff.

You’ll judge if they’re mismatched? I have a friend who sometimes allows her little kids to pick out the clothes they want to wear (when they’re hanging out at home or playing outside) and couldn’t care less what people think. She’s down to earth, not showy, and happens to have a lot of money. That’s someone to emulate, not someone who’s judgmental especially about the most insignificant things like kids’ clothing.

bsy

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 12:15 pm

amother Mauve wrote:

This whole thing is so exaggerated. I'm in brooklyn and everyone wears carters. There was a carters on 13th ave that closed a few years ago and we were all so upset. There were always frum women shopping there

Nothing strange about Carter's in Brooklyn. My kids wear mostly hand me downs, Walmart, Carter's etc, and Jewish stuff from previous years bought on sale. Never had teachers think they're strange or treat them differently. I don't spend a lot on clothes because it seems dumb to me. My kids are still cute and their smiles have gotten many comments from strangers.

AlwaysGrateful

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 12:26 pm

amother Lightcyan wrote:

Why can’t kids looking cute also be on that list of priorities? It’s not so hard that it’s mutually exclusive with your other priorities.

It's not always mutually exclusive. But when my 4 year old decides she wants to wear her favorite pink shirt and her sparkling pink skirt together, and they're two different color pinks and clash with each other...Sure, with some of my kids I could just say "Sweetie, that doesn't really match, try this one instead." But in her case, it would be a big deal and strain our relationship. I'm not afraid to say no my kids about things that really matter. But this doesn't really matter. Anyone who sees her will presumably assume that she got herself dressed. As opposed to judging me for not matching her correctly.

I pick my battles with my kids. Don't we all? Some battles are definitely worth picking. Some are not. How do I decide that? Based on my priorities.

My kid wants to walk from my car into the house, rather than be carried, even though it's a bit muddy? Fine, try to go around the big puddles, and if you get a bit on yourself, we'll wipe it off as best as we can. My kid wants to walk into playgroup with muddy shoes on and not clean them off/take them off? No, because it's a priority to teach her to respect other people's homes and belongings.

My kid wants to do something I think is dangerous or mean to others? Priority, so no, not okay. My kid wants to style her own hair and is proud of herself, even though it's objectively not as neat as I'd like? Not worth fighting the battle.

watergirl

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 12:52 pm

snooper86 wrote:

I will judge you if your kids are wearing mismatched, torn or dirty clothes. Otherwise especially if you shop well no one has a clue where it’s from and every company has cute stuff.

My daughter had her own sense of style from The time she was two years old. So much so that I used to put her tops in one drawer in her bottoms and another drawer, and she would make her own outfits every day, and she looked absolutely wacko. But she was happy and she was available, even though her clothes was completely mismatched.

Today, she has a pretty decent following for fashion on a platform.

Like I said before, one of my kids was dirty all day because he went all in for everything that he does. He’s a totally out of the box guy, that’s just who he is.

I hope you are getting something out of judging me or my kids. I’m not sure what, but enjoy. It doesn’t seem to be a very pleasant way of going through life, but to each their own.

watergirl

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 12:52 pm

amother Lightcyan wrote:

Why can’t kids looking cute also be on that list of priorities? It’s not so hard that it’s mutually exclusive with your other priorities.

Who gets to decide what is cute and what is not? How about this - I'll decide for me, you decide for you?

amother Floralwhite wrote:

This is why uniforms are unfortunately a necessity. We are better than this, we read about so many poor tzaddikim and some people would judge a sweet little Neshama based on their clothes? May Hashem help us all.

Sadly, the teachers who judge kids based on their clothing will always find something else to use for judgement. It's a personality thing.

amother

Ebony

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 1:08 pm

Cheiny wrote:

yeah I don't believe that majority of people don't form an initial impression of someone based on appearances (aka judgement in nicer words)
can it be that some people are totally oblivious? of course.. (and for some reason they all seem to be on imamother Rolling Eyes

)

I don't buy it.

I agree that treating a person differently or literally labeling them as X for life because of the initial impression is wrong.. BUT having those first thoughts are HUMAN.

and YES I feel bad, but how you dress says something about you.. it does.

I personally, would never dress my kid in designer bec its the biggest bal tashchis imo. so I dont even disagree with this thread.
I do have an issue with everyone acting all lofty and making it out that theyre all 'blind' to how other people dress.

BaltoMom65

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 1:16 pm

amother Electricblue wrote:

The issue wouldn't be the carters - its the teenager who is SURE it will destroy HER social standard if the baby is chas veshalom in carters.

And since teenagers are immature and petty, it may actually be true in some cases. My solution - make sure the stuff is "jewish look"

Like this caters item

Instead of this carters item

Or you can use this as a teaching moment for your teen instead of indulging them in this gashmius?

watergirl

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 1:20 pm

amother Ebony wrote:

I agree that treating a person differently or literally labeling them as X for life because of the initial impression is wrong.. BUT having those first thoughts are HUMAN.

and YES I feel bad, but how you dress says something about you.. it does.

We can't use "these thoughts are human" as an excuse for judging people.

How I dress or how my kids dress - how about this switch - not that it says something about us, rather, it's up to the onlooker to remember that we all have a chiyuv to look upon someone with an ayin tovah. Decide something nice about people when you see them.

Kid in wild, mismatching clothing - oh look at that sweet girl, she has her own style!
Kid in chocolate stained white shirt - how nice, he had a rosh chodesh treat today and he enjoyed it!
Kid in a "ratty dino" shirt - wow he sure looks comfy!

AlwaysGrateful

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 1:24 pm

amother Ebony wrote:

Okay, I'm going to sound like I'm contradicting myself here, but I do agree with that. My first reaction when I see an adult dressed in a shlumpy way is "Hm, she doesn't care much about how she dresses" or "She must have had a really busy day today" or some mix of similar thoughts. My first reaction when I see someone dressed to the nines, and I'm being totally honest here, is not a thought, it's a feeling of intimidation. And then I try my hardest to move past that and tell myself that just because she dresses like that says NOTHING about her as a person, except that she likes to dress well. And I've had some lovely conversations with people who initially made me nervous because of how they were dressed.

But when I see a kid who's dressed nicely or dressed in a more shlumpy way? Maybe a thought might flit through my mind that "Those clothes are cute" or "Must be the youngest of a bunch of boys" but that's it.

BaltoMom65

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 1:29 pm

amother Ebony wrote:

Fair,agreed and to follow up on your point- Don't be offended or surprised when the one 'outsider' looks at the group as sad, materialistic or cult like.