Allowing your husband time to go learn..

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 9:50 am

No, I don't think we need our own forum.

Long post:

I also work full time. My husband learns in the morning for 2 hours before davening, during his down times at work, and in the evening. He also gives a shiur in the evening on what he learns so if he is not prepared then he continues to learn after breakfast in the morning before he goes to work. He also has a lonnnnnnnnnnng commute to work so he listens to tapes that pertain to what he is learning to review it again.

The main thing I do is make sure there is nothing left for him to do when he comes home in the evening - this way he goes to sleep relatively early and can get up on time in the morning (very early). I also don't allow him to get up for the children in the night because I know he can't get up early and drive to work safetly. I just don't complain if he can't help me with something, I know that he will feel bad, and based on what he was taught he will cut down on his learning to help me out in the house. I remind myself how special his learning is and that it keeps us in a certain place spiritually we really would not be otherwise.

I don't want to sound like a martyr. When I need help I ask for it and I always get it. I recently cut back my hours so I'm only working until 3:30 (my kids are in daycare until 2:00) and I work from home. I have a cleaning lady once a week.

He does help me out in the house still - he does my grocery shopping one morning a week and he goes to the dry cleaners one morning a week. And he drops the kids off at the babysitter (down the block each morning)

Just to address some comments I've seen about feeling inferior in certain communities if your husband does not learn full time - dh was working before we were married - he was also learning a full morning and night seder. Before that he was just not thriving in his learning full time - he spoke to gadol who advised him to start working. Because college was really not accepted where he grew up he found something he enjoyed with out it (Which is good because we have no student loans!). I really wanted to marry someone who was learning in kollel but found him instead, and am glad of it. Because of our age and the community we live in, and dh's family people always assume that he is learning full time and are shocked to hear that he is not, but not negative about it. I know that what he is doing is based on the advice of a gadol, he is happier this way, and he ENJOYS his learning so much more, so I know we are doing the right thing.

octopus

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 10:40 am

Maybe I don't belong posting here, but I work full time- at home with my kids. Yes, I'm a "sahm."

My dh goes out to learn every night during the week. And I don't think it is any easier for me than a working woman. I don't see my dh all day. And I'm pretty much doing everything on my own. Dh comes home between 7 and 8 at night. He comes home, eats supper, and goes out to learn at 9. Dh doesn't come home until 10:30 (maariv included). If there is grocery shopping to be done, he won't come home until 11:00.

I've had ppl ask me why in the world do I "let" dh learn every night, as opposed to two or three times a week.

I don't think this problem is unique to a working woman. And some working woman, if they can afford it, have more help than me with babysitters, cleaning ladies, etc. Which is fine. My point is, I am pretty frazzled by the time the day ends, too.

My dh still helps me in the house when he comes home, though. Every night he helps me clear the kitchen and put everything away.

Anyway, as I'm a bit off-topic, I would just like to mention that my dh's learning is not even considered "one seder." It is not in yeshiva, it is in a shul, and it is b'chavrusah.

greeneyes

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 11:25 am

happy2BaMommy wrote:

Wow, I give you a lot of credit! I have such a hard time when my DH goes to learn. After a long day taking care of my dd, I'm ready to have his company and an extra hand. You are an inspiration though, and I'm going to try to encourage him to learn a bit more frequently, even though it's difficult on me.

Twizzlers

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 11:26 am

happy2BaMommy wrote:

ditto

Leahh

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 11:47 am

happy2BaMommy wrote:

I do not mean to bash anyone but to merely try and explain something - I used to work out of the house full time, then not at all and now I work about 12 hours a week out of the house.
I've had experience on both sides. Many working moms think they have it worse because they're not home all day to do anything however, us stay-at-home moms do not have anytime during the day to do anything either. Do you really think that just because we're home we have the time to clean the house and do the dishes and the laundry? My daughter takes a 2 hour nap during the day - that is all the time I have during the day to do any of the things I mentioned. The rest of the time I'm busy watching her, running after her, and keeping her out of trouble. I don't even bother to clean up after her because as soon as I turn my head she'll make a mess again. And if I try to make a phone call she makes sure to 'punish' me.
The only time I have to do househole chores is when she's sleeping.
So after a long, tiring day of watching her, making & serving supper, getting kids into bed, I am exhausted and would LOVE to have my DH's help cleaning up and straightening out the house (just to be made into a mess tom again) but that's the only time he has to learn so I try my hardest to put a smile on my face and so go.
(Just as a side point - I actually found things easier when I worked full time. I used my ride home from work to unwind so when I got home I was somewhat refreshed. I had more energy at 5pm when I worked full time then I do nowadays.)
My point is really that just because we're home doesn't make the household chores any easier or less tiring.
I strongly believe that MOST stay-at-home moms will agree with what I have written.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 2:02 pm

I work part time from home and I can tell you both sides. On the days that I have to work then it's more difficult because I am watching my kids plus working. But on the days that all I am is a stay at home mom it's not hard at all. You can take your kids out if you don't want them to make a mess plus you can lie down on the couch as they are playing and rest when they are resting. You can also have your kids help you with chores and laundry. My 14 month old sits on the floor in my laundry room and hands me the clothes to put in the washer there is no way that working full time is easier than being a stay at hom mom. If we want excuses we can always find it. On the days that I work then I find that I end up going to bed at 1 or 2 am bec. I was busy working.

octopus

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 2:40 pm

amother wrote:

This thread is not to debate who has it harder. I take my hat off to the working moms. Mentally and emotionally, I would turn into crazy lady.(I personally find that having to get somewhere on time for work more stressful than most of my other stressors in life. But that could just be me in general).But amother above, you are basing your opinions on your experiences. Sounds like you only have one kid at home with you. And a well-behaved one at that. Some of us have two or three (or more!) kids at home. Multiply the kids equals more than double the work and mess.
So please don't say, "If we want excuses we can always find it."
It is hard for women, at home, or working, to give up time with our husbands so that they can go learn. Both groups of women do not see their spouses all day. Both groups can use chizuk in this area. It is not mutually exclusive from one another.
And I'm not some tzadekes that gives up time with my spouse so that he can go learn. Dh would be on the computer anyway during the time that he learns, and probably not chit-chatting with me. I just figured, hey! he may as well learn anyway.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 2:41 pm

I'm the first amother with the long post.

I don't want to turn this into a SAHM argument but when you're working you can't just throw in a load of laundry, or put up a pot of soup to cook through the day, or quickly straighten a room, or marinate chicken. You can't take your kids to the park either. So after your done working you spend time with your kids - go to park, etc and that pushes everything off.
I don't understand why SAHMs can't do these things. On Sunday, my only day to get stuff done, I do these things and more with my kids home and it all gets done.
Also, most women do not have full time cleaning help. More like 3 hours a week just to keep things in control there is still a lot to do around the house!

octopus

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 3:07 pm

amother wrote:

More like 3 hours a week just to keep things in control there is still a lot to do around the house!

Well, that's more help than I get per week. If I had three straight hours to clean...my house would be spotless.

The point of this thread was about having dh learn after a whole day of work.

Also, the judgmental working moms, I am very happy you get things done in your house on sundays. I just wonder what ages your kids are. You cannot assume that everyone has the same kind of kids (behavior-wise), ages, etc.

Sure, I could get things done in my house- if I ignored my kids for part of the day. But I don't. Next time anyone asks me what I do, I think I'll say I run a playgroup. That garners a more respectful attitude from people.

cdawnr

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 3:24 pm

happy2BaMommy wrote:

amother wrote:

More like 3 hours a week just to keep things in control there is still a lot to do around the house!

I have to say that I think you cameinto thei sthread with a chip on your shoulder about working mom's having an attitude!

I work from home but my kids are in daycare most of hte day, and hte last 2 hours of m y work day they are home. That's just a statement of who I am.

The biggest difference I see are the expectations. With a sahm situation it is understood you run the house as your job and hubby works as his job. For the moms who work, at lesat for me, it's kindof like, hmmm I'm also bringing in money that pays the bills (mtg!) so why am I still in charge of everything else!!!

As far as the issue of dh learning goes--I don't think that part makes a difference. I think it is tough for everybody.

MamaBear

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 3:42 pm

This thread was one the homepage so that's how I found it even though I'm a sahm....

My 2 cents: I think everyone, whether they work out of the home in a paid job or "work" in their home caring for their kids, is capable of different things. My husband gets home by 8, helps put the kids to bed by 8:30, eats with me til 9pm, and then is off davening and learning. He also has research to do every night. So generally, he's not much help to me in terms of child care and housework unless I'm not feeling well or something. Then I speak up and he davens at home and learns for only a half hr. But I have friends who could not cope in my situation and they are able to speak up for themselves. If you're not happy, say something. Some women need more help from their spouses (because they work all day or their kids are rowdier and they can't get much done during the day, etc) and some women just really want everything to be 50/50. The point is, you owe it to your marriage to find a balance that keeps everyone sane and happy.

creativemommyto3

Sat, Aug 23 2008, 2:23 pm

amother wrote:

My husband is the same.. he is not in kollel at the advice of his Rav. He wanted a girl who wanted a boy in kollel and that was me. I always wanted that. On that kollel wives thread I got so upset b/c I knew that what they are doing is holy and I was sooo jealous b/c I wanted soo bad to be part of this group of holy women who do so much for the sake of Torah learning.

My husband told me that it's a fact of life that is wonderful that kollel ppl are the elite b/c they are totally being meshubad to Torah. That is why there were some shevatim who were not slaves in Mitzrayim.
I was so excited that my husband joined an evening kollel b/c I thought that for that sliver of time I could be a kollel wife.

Another question here... how do I make my husband feel like he is still a wonderful baal yirai shamayim eventhough he is not in full time kollel? I think kollel wives have the opposite problem, they have to let their dh feel liket they are being taken care of b/c it's a man's natural instinct to provide for his fam.

leads me a to a diff question.. how do I make my dh feel like he is taking care of me when we have financial struggles??

mimivan

Sat, Aug 23 2008, 9:25 pm

happy2BaMommy wrote:

IMHO, you are a working woman. If you are working full time from home you are a WAHM, like me. You are doing two full time jobs..

octopus

Sat, Aug 23 2008, 9:37 pm

mimivan wrote:

happy2BaMommy wrote:

IMHO, you are a working woman. If you are working full time from home you are a WAHM, like me. You are doing two full time jobs..

yes, but I meant that my work= taking care of my kids/home. I don't have a separate job. Sorry for not being clear enough.