Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Struggles re dress where chumra is the norm in community



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Charnie123




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 10 2024, 11:22 am
I am BT but my community is yeshivish where there are chumras as the norm. For example no sandals outside. Skirts not just a few inches below the knee but only a little above the ankle if not wearing tights. Most people won’t even show a small bit of hair when covering even though many very frum women do this and most posskim allow it. I learned the Halacha as make sure your elbows are covered, neckline up to the bottom of the neck, skirt below the knees when sitting and standing and that the head and majority of hair needs to be covered. But since I live in this type of community I feel uncomfortable not dressing as the chumra. It’s the type of community where people look at you funny for being different. My husband doesn’t expect me to follow the chumra/he’s chilled yeshivish but still frum and says I don’t need to do the chumra, he just wants me to dress how I like and he knows I still follow Halacha. He even said 3/4 hair covering is totally fine with him sandals etc. But then I feel like the odd one out and as if the other women see me as less frum etc. It’s just frustrating because for example I would like to wear a full coverage Kippa fall and my husband is fine with it, his friend has smicha and studied with Rav Feinstein and said this type of wig is permissible for me to wear when we asked him the shaila, but then I feel like I am not dressed within community standards.

I like the idea of moving either out of town or somewhere more mixed like Five Towns, certain parts of NJ besides Lakewood (I like Teaneck for example) but for financial reasons we can’t really move at this point. Sigh.

At one point, I never thought I would cover my knees all the time, let alone my calves and feet. To be clear I think chumra is beautiful, but I feel like the longer sleeves and no tights becomes totally a social thing and not about connecting to hashem. In the other hand I cover my hair at home pretty much always except when my hair is soaking or I’m in bed or sleeping which is somewhat of a chumra but because I feel like it’s a chumra I’m spiritually connected to hashem more, not just to “fit in”. I don’t have kids so technically I can uncover at home.
Back to top

naomi2




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 10 2024, 11:27 am
I'm sorry your hashkava doesn't match the community live in. That's really tough. I know you wrote that you aren't able to move now but I think you should keep that as a long-term goal, to find a community where you feel like you fit in. It's not really a sustainable situation to be an outsider in your own community
Back to top

tulip3




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 10 2024, 11:30 am
You would be so much happier in a less yeshivish place!
With minhag hamakom things like tights/knee socks, you're supposed to follow the norm Sad covering more then the elbow is unnecessary and I don't know where they cooked up that chumra from.
I agree that many ppl are trying to fit in and look more holy or follow the school rules and are not connecting to the mitzvah but I'm sure some do connect.
Back to top

B'Syata D'Shmya




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 27 2024, 5:53 am
Charnie123 wrote:
I am BT but my community is yeshivish where there are chumras as the norm. For example no sandals outside. Skirts not just a few inches below the knee but only a little above the ankle if not wearing tights. Most people won’t even show a small bit of hair when covering even though many very frum women do this and most posskim allow it. I learned the Halacha as make sure your elbows are covered, neckline up to the bottom of the neck, skirt below the knees when sitting and standing and that the head and majority of hair needs to be covered. But since I live in this type of community I feel uncomfortable not dressing as the chumra. It’s the type of community where people look at you funny for being different. My husband doesn’t expect me to follow the chumra/he’s chilled yeshivish but still frum and says I don’t need to do the chumra, he just wants me to dress how I like and he knows I still follow Halacha. He even said 3/4 hair covering is totally fine with him sandals etc. But then I feel like the odd one out and as if the other women see me as less frum etc. It’s just frustrating because for example I would like to wear a full coverage Kippa fall and my husband is fine with it, his friend has smicha and studied with Rav Feinstein and said this type of wig is permissible for me to wear when we asked him the shaila, but then I feel like I am not dressed within community standards.

I like the idea of moving either out of town or somewhere more mixed like Five Towns, certain parts of NJ besides Lakewood (I like Teaneck for example) but for financial reasons we can’t really move at this point. Sigh.

At one point, I never thought I would cover my knees all the time, let alone my calves and feet. To be clear I think chumra is beautiful, but I feel like the longer sleeves and no tights becomes totally a social thing and not about connecting to hashem. In the other hand I cover my hair at home pretty much always except when my hair is soaking or I’m in bed or sleeping which is somewhat of a chumra but because I feel like it’s a chumra I’m spiritually connected to hashem more, not just to “fit in”. I don’t have kids so technically I can uncover at home.


Since moving isnt an option, you have two choices, stay and dress according to the community standards in order to fit in even if its not you... Or stay, dress the way you want and deal with not fitting in.

You dont need to convince us that its ok to dress according to your personal standards but if doing so is outside the communities norms, it may affect other aspects of your family life, just like with every community in the world. OTOH, if it makes you miserable, then its worth the risk.

Chumrahs arent meant to be beautiful, they are just putting the fence in an area where you feel safer that you wont be over the halacha. Its a personal thing. A chumrah you dont connect to can lead to disconnection from Hashem so be careful. I think its worth getting Rabbinical guidance in this area.
Back to top

kneidelmeidel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 27 2024, 9:09 am
I’d suggest making small changes which will make you feel more comfortable in your own skin, for example, skip wearing tights with long or even shorter skirts with closed toe shoes, wear slightly fitted clothes, funkier colours.
Back to top

zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 27 2024, 11:05 am
You can do several things:
1. Move elsewhere. If not now, save up for the future.
2. Reconcile yourself to following community norms and remind yourself that while this isn't "you," this is protective coloration for social convenience and will be shed when and if you move.
3. Do as you like and learn not to care what the neighbors think, knowing you have full halachic justification for what you do.
4. Choose one convention to break at a time. Get the neighbors used to seeing you with sandals, say, then after a number of months, wear a slightly shorter skirt until their eye adjusts to that. By the time you get them accustomed to all the ways you dress differently, you may have enough money saved up to be able to move--or you may be comfortable being you in a non-you community.

And why is it always about the way women dress? Can't communities obsess about other things?
Back to top

tulip3




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 27 2024, 11:10 am
zaq wrote:
You can do several things:
1. Move elsewhere. If not now, save up for the future.
2. Reconcile yourself to following community norms and remind yourself that while this isn't "you," this is protective coloration for social convenience and will be shed when and if you move.
3. Do as you like and learn not to care what the neighbors think, knowing you have full halachic justification for what you do.
4. Choose one convention to break at a time. Get the neighbors used to seeing you with sandals, say, then after a number of months, wear a slightly shorter skirt until their eye adjusts to that. By the time you get them accustomed to all the ways you dress differently, you may have enough money saved up to be able to move--or you may be comfortable being you in a non-you community.

[b]And why is it always about the way women dress? Can't communities obsess about other things?[/b]


ha! yes, that's not only what our religion is all about.
Back to top
Page 1 of 1 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Fancy dress for wedding
by amother
3 Fri, Jun 07 2024, 3:45 pm View last post
Frum Pittsburgh Community
by amother
1 Fri, Jun 07 2024, 10:49 am View last post
ISO sneakers and dress shoes for toddler boy with wide feet
by amother
3 Wed, Jun 05 2024, 6:43 pm View last post
Start a new community
by amother
7 Tue, Jun 04 2024, 12:44 pm View last post
by GLUE
Dress for sons bar Mitzva
by amother
22 Tue, Jun 04 2024, 7:05 am View last post