A tale of two minhagim

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amother

Wed, May 15 2024, 11:56 pm

A grandson of Rav Pam zt"l shared the following story.

He once asked his grandfather what the family minhag was regarding hadlakas neiros for erev Shabbos. Some have the minhag to light two candles, while others add a candle for each child. So, he wanted to know what the Pam family minhag was.

Rav Pam responded that their minhag was to light two candles.

The grandson asked, "If that's the case, why does Bubby light 8 candles?"

Rav Pam said, "Well, I have another minhag, and that is that I don't tell my wife what to do. And this minhag trumps the other minhag. "

I heard this on Torah Anytime from R' Chaim Rosenfeld

BH Yom Yom

Thu, May 16 2024, 7:57 am

Love it!

amother

Thu, May 16 2024, 9:04 am

They say one shouldn't ask a "kasha oif a maasa," just take a story for what it is, without asking questions.

Nevertheless, I do have a question.
I have learned that the wife follows her mother's minhag in regards to lighting candles, not the husband's.
So it makes sense that Rebbetzin Pam didn't do as her husband's minhag. Therefore, I don't understand the grandson's question in the first place.

That being said, I still thought this was a gem of a story.

A truly great person knows how to prioritize what's important. A minhag or chumra is a wonderful thing, but shalom bayis and respecting one's spouse is even greater.

amother

Clematis

Thu, May 16 2024, 9:11 am

I follow my dh minhag. His mom lights 2 so I light 2. My mom lights one for each kid.

amother

DarkViolet

Thu, May 16 2024, 9:56 am

Beautiful story. I hope to follow DH minhagim though. I think it's the torah way

amother

Thu, May 16 2024, 10:07 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

Beautiful story. I hope to follow DH minhagim though. I think it's the torah way

As I said, that was just my question. The story stands on its own.

Regarding minhagim, we do follow our husband's minhagim in most things. Some say that for the women's mitzvos, she follows her mother. But I guess there are other opinions.

amother

Banana

Thu, May 16 2024, 10:34 am

amother Clematis wrote:

I follow my dh minhag. His mom lights 2 so I light 2. My mom lights one for each kid.

I do the opposite. My mom is a Yekke and only lights 2 candles so that is what I do even though my MIL lights a candle for each child.

amother

Holly

Thu, May 16 2024, 11:24 am

amother Clematis wrote:

I follow my dh minhag. His mom lights 2 so I light 2. My mom lights one for each kid.

Just curious, was this advised by a Rav?

amother

Lemonchiffon

Thu, May 16 2024, 11:30 am

I was told by well-known posek (no longer alive) that ALL minhagim, including those like nusach tefillah, follow DH.

amother

Holly

Thu, May 16 2024, 11:33 am

amother Lemonchiffon wrote:

I was told by well-known posek (no longer alive) that ALL minhagim, including those like nusach tefillah, follow DH.

Including those that are specific to women? Like how many time to dip in mikvah and how many candles a mother lights?

amother

Pink

Thu, May 16 2024, 11:38 am

amother Lemonchiffon wrote:

I was told by well-known posek (no longer alive) that ALL minhagim, including those like nusach tefillah, follow DH.

You should re-ask a posek you can speak to now. Most minhagim, even things you do yourself like what nusach you daven, follow your husband. Minhagim regarding the three women’s mitzvos follow the wife’s mother. This is the opinion of most poskim. You don’t ask your mil how many times she dips, you do whatever your mother did. Same with how many candles you light.

Lemonade 2323

Thu, May 16 2024, 11:46 am

amother Lemonchiffon wrote:

I was told by well-known posek (no longer alive) that ALL minhagim, including those like nusach tefillah, follow DH.

Lecht Bensching goes according to the mother.

I light for each kid, same for Shabbos and Yom Tov. When my son got married I learned something new, my dil lights 2 for Shabbos and 4 for Yom Tov, like her Mom does regardless of how many kids.

amother

DarkGreen

Thu, May 16 2024, 11:54 am

I was told to follow DH on everything besides candles and mikva. Those, I should follow mom.

amother

Thu, May 16 2024, 1:13 pm

There are different opinions on this.

What I appreciated about this story is the idea that a gadol prioritized his shalom bayis over his own conviction.

I once heard a similar idea from a woman whose grandfather was one of the great Roshei Yeshiva and mussar giants of the previous generation. There is a biography on him put out by Artscroll or Feldheim which contains many pictures of this gadol.

She pointed out to me that in the earlier pictures of the book, his beard is neatly trimmed. In the later pictures, his beard is much fuller and longer.

She told me that in their family it is known that his first wife objected to him having a long beard. She liked it trimmed. So he complied. It was only when she passed away that he grew out his beard.

I was amazed when I heard this story, because, as a Rosh Yeshiva and Rav, one would think he would wear his beard as he liked. His beard, his choice. Also, perhaps he wanted a longer beard for religious reasons. And yet, he honored his wife's wishes.

(I am not saying the name of this gadol because I'm not sure if it is public information.)

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