At what age do you have to start disciplining your children?

MalkaChaya

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 3:42 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with all the previous posters that say it is never too early to discipline. After all, 'discipline' means teaching, not punishment.

If baby bites while nursing, I tell him "no biting" in a stern voice with no smile on my face and that feeding is over. Of course, if he's still hungry we start again in a few minutes. That 2 minute break is all the lesson he needs now.

When he's older and bites on the playground, "no biting" won't be a new lesson, timeouts won't be a new consequence, and he'll learn not to repeat the behavior -- just like he's learning not to bite me now.

Twizzlers

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 9:11 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

Twizzlers wrote:

crayon, I'm not going to hog greeneyes' thread arguing out our differences in child raising. but one thing I have to say, children are meant to act like children, not miniature adults. when you and your child are invited to someones house for a PLAY date, it is expected that the child will actually PLAY with the toys and not sit and have tea with the adults. Rolling Eyes

I didn't ask about playing with toys. I asked about throwing all the toys everywhere, and you said that's fine. Confused

I didnt say anything about throwing toys. I said playing with toys in a manner that is neither destructive nor dangerous. where is your creativity? do you only allow the cars to be played with on the track? and the dolls only in the doll carriages?
and out of curiosity, how did greeneyes' daughter "pulling books off shelves" turn into my kid throwing toys?

Crayon210 wrote:

Twizzlers wrote:

and another thing, you have to pick your battles. you want to fight with a kid about a little exploring she's doing by taking out some books? good, enjoy. but when you need to assert yourself for more important stuff like not running in the street, I think you'll have a harder time.

If you only assert yourself about not running in the street, your child will probably wonder who the heck this woman thinks she is, telling him not to run into the street.

well if your kids need to be told "no" to everything so that they remember who you are for the dangerous things, I feel sorry for them.

Crayon210

Wed, Aug 27 2008, 11:02 pm

Twizzlers wrote:

Crayon210 wrote:

Twizzlers wrote:

I didn't ask about playing with toys. I asked about throwing all the toys everywhere, and you said that's fine. Confused

There's a world of difference between not allowing dumping 96 toys on the floor and only allowing cars to be played with on the track. Do you know about shades of gray?

Quote:

Crayon210 wrote:

Twizzlers wrote:

If you only assert yourself about not running in the street, your child will probably wonder who the heck this woman thinks she is, telling him not to run into the street.

well if your kids need to be told "no" to everything so that they remember who you are for the dangerous things, I feel sorry for them.

Hmm. That's not what I said. I just said that it's not accurate to think that if you say yes to everything, then your kids will listen when you say no. Scratching Head

Again, you seem to be having a hard time with shades of gray. Saying no to everything? Who does that? I just think that throwing books in a public library is an outrageous behavior for a 14-month-old. Or rather, for the mother of that 14-month-old to permit. shock

leomom

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 1:24 am

I wouldn't let a 14-month-old have free access to the library shelves if she's making a mess of the books. If she took just a few books off the library shelf, I'd simply pick them up and put them back. But continuing to pull books down isn't acceptable and I would end that behavior, without explaining any consequences or trying to reason. Just move the baby!

I would either leave the library if that happened, or tell her that Mommy will choose some books to take home -- and hold her firmly on my hip while I grab and few, check out, and go.

BeershevaBubby

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 1:47 am

I don't see much wrong in a 15 month old pulling books off the shelf at the children's library.

After a few books have been pulled, I'd sit him in my lap and we'd look at the pictures together and then I'd have him help me put the books back.

Lather, rinse repeat.

Pulling books off the shelves makes a mess, but it's not destroying the books. Now if the OP had said her daughter was ripping pages out of the book (as my own 15 month old likes to do), that's another story.

I don't see what's wrong with having 96 toys strewn about at a child's play date. It's how they behave when it's time to clean up that I feel is more important.

And I believe in teaching them young. Maybe it's because I'm also a breast feeding mom and as many babies tend to do when they get their teeth, they experiment with biting Mommy... My son understands a firm no. It doesn't mean he won't continue trying to get away with whatever it is he's trying to do, but for the time being, that stern "Nati, NO!" stops him.

Raizle

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 2:24 am

shalhevet wrote:

I think you can discipline children from the age of about 8 months. Discipline at that age doesn't mean punishment of course, but it means teaching them the correct way to behave.

That's called educating.
Also with the story of the man who came to his Rebbe, I think what he asked was at what age should he start educating not disciplining.

A baby may be too young for punishment and discipline but is never too young for chinuch.

leomom

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 7:56 am

I think there's a big difference between making a mess at home and away from home. At home I am often willing to live with the results of my child's "creativity" while it runs its course. Then, as you said, we can clean up together (ideally). But even a temporary mess at the children's library (more than a few books on the floor at a time) isn't really appropriate or considerate because other children and parents also would like access to the books, and probably don't want to rummage through the pile on the floor or step over the pile to get what they want.

If I was at the library and a mother was allowing her child (of any age) to do more than minimal mess-making, I would find it annoying. I wouldn't blame the child, who doesn't know better, but the parent who didn't prevent it from happening.

And I'm a nursing mother, too. Very Happy

We all agree about stopping babies from biting -- but what does that really have to do with this discussion?

BusyBeeMommy

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 9:17 am

Raizle wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I think you can discipline children from the age of about 8 months. Discipline at that age doesn't mean punishment of course, but it means teaching them the correct way to behave.

Actually, discipline and chinuch are one and the same. Look up the definition of it: http://www.merriam-webster.com.....pline

Today discipline has become synonomous w/ punishment but actually discipline does not have to involve punishment at all. It means training a child in correct behavior, and if done at a young age, does not necessitate punishment.

W/ the case of the library, and many other cases, it is true that OP should not have let her child pull down so many books. But she also should have taken him away from the scene, b/c he is not old enough to control himself and realize not do it while in the situation. There are many such situations that a child will encounter. It is best to just take them away from it versus tell them no and expect them to stop on their own.

jewgal84

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 5:11 pm

greeneyes wrote:

Thanks everyone for your input.

Can anyone recommend a good parenting book that deals specifically with such young children? I'd love to read up on this.

Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood: Practical Parenting from Birth to Six Years.

I'm a big fan for Jim Fay. All his Love and Logic books are great. I personally did not read this particular one, but it seems it would be age appropriate for your child. Before buyin it, browse through your local library or book store to read a bit of it first to see if your comfortable with his methods.

Back to your original post:

I personally would not bring my children at that age to a public library. I do not want to be responsible for a public mess or challeneged in front of other ppl on how I discipline my children.

At home we have our own bookshelves, with their books and I let them explore there. It does not bother me when they pull everything off the shelf. when it comes to point when they start ripping off covers and pages, then it will be an affirmative no and the child would be taken away from location and be distracted with something else. If he comes back and same scenario, I repeat procedure. Affirmative NO, remove child and distract him. After 3 times, won't let him play with books anymore, period.

Once I feel that my children can treat books with respect in my home, then they are ready to explore public places such as Libraries.

In other people's houses it can be very challenging. A) Does mom mind mess B) How does she go about disciplining her children. C) Can I attempt to discipline my kids in front of hers etc.

Solution: Arrange playdates in our house LOL

!!

Please note: I do not agree that pulling books off shelves should become an activity or habit.

leomom

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 6:00 pm

YESHASettler wrote:

yy wrote:

And I'm a nursing mother, too. Very Happy

We all agree about stopping babies from biting -- but what does that really have to do with this discussion?

The OP asked about when one starts disciplining one's child.

Teaching your child not to bite while nursing is a form of discipline.

I understood that. I just meant that since the issue of a nursing baby biting is not particularly controversial -- I would think all mothers would put a stop to it -- it doesn't really shed any light on the subject. The main question had to do with a specific public situation with a toddler.

But of course, we agree, discipline/education begins at birth (always in an age-appropriate way, obviously).

BusyBeeMommy

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 9:32 pm

Right, I agree. Discipline is teaching and training children in the correct behavior. It does not have to do w/ any negativity or punishment. If you use positive reinforcement, such as praise when they do the right thing, you are disciplining them.

It's unfortunate that today discipline is associated w/ punishment. Punishment should be a last resort. Disciplining should be done pro-actively.

Jewgal84, thanks for the suggestion of the book. I will definitely look into it. I wish there was a frum book out there w/ a jewish perspective on chinuch specifically for small children. It should include things like when to start teaching kids abt shabbos melachos, mutar/assur, muktzah... Haven't found one yet Confused