Why are the hrs for pre-k and pre-1A so long?

amother

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 4:54 pm

Every year I actually lose sleep over this issue. Maybe it's just the Riverdale/Bronx area. But over here the hrs for the frum pre-k programs are ridiculous. Much much more than the secular programs. The 2s have the option of going 3,4, or 5 days a week (which I like) from 9-1. Ok, not amazing but I can deal. I think 3 hrs a day for a 2 yr old is ideal. They only need 2 hrs but realistically, it's nice to get stuff accomplished during that time and 3 hrs makes that more likely. One place does offer that but the distance is too far for me.

The 3s programs are all 5 days a week, for over 5 hrs. A 3 yr old should be in "school" for 25 hrs a week? Imo, that's called daycare. I don't care what they're apparently learning according to the director. And some of those kids don't even turn 3 til November. The 4s classes are 6 hrs a day. And pre-1 at the place I just called for my oldest for next year is 8:20 til 4pm. Um, yeah. Totally inappropriate. And the non frum parents I tell this to look at me like I have 2 heads. It would never "fly" anywhere else.

Does "down time", home time, etc mean nothing to the local jewish school system? I understand the length of the day for older kids because of the mixture of secular and judaic studies, but why push it at such a young age? Why not give more options for those who don't have child care needs? For those who just want their child's home life to be enriched by a taste of pre-school? Surely a bit of a longer day in the 4s is enough preparation for a longer day the following year in pre-1A.

Of course, they get more money for the longer hrs and if they can get enough parents to pay for the longer hrs then it works out nicely for the school.

Amother b/c parents around here always seem to disagree with me on this issue. I guess they don't care about spending such little quality time with their children. Or maybe 2 yr olds and 3 yr olds are much more mature and need less one on one attention than I believe.

yo'ma

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 5:03 pm

You want to hear crazy hours?
In the pre-school my kids go to, until age 2 and including, you have a choice of 3 hours in the morning, 9-12, or 3 hours in the afternoon, 1:45-4:45. Starting at age 3, you have the same choice or the whole day, nothing in between. Lunch is from 12-1:45 and they can eat in school or go home. Most kids go home. Starting at age 4, they have a whole day, 9-4:45. There's also the lunch break, with eating there or going home. My kids, now ages 4 and 6, but in the 3 and 5 year old groups, stay the whole with eating lunch there. I do take them out twice a month, though. I would love to send them for longer, but 3 HOURS???? That's really too short for them, but this is so long.

Mama Bear

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 5:16 pm

I admit that 8:20 - 4:30 is long; here the 2 1/2 - 5 y.o.'s go from 9:45 to 3:20. the day flies by before you know it. from 3-7 pm is just long enough for me to come up with ways to entertain my 3 y.o. and pry him off his little brother. 5 hours a day for a 3 year old in a structured environment with buddies to play with is not long at all. he has PLENTy of time at home! maybe your kid is not challenging; but my son is KE"h so high maintenance that I'm grateful that he is out of the house for a total of 30 hours a week. he's hoem friday afternoons, shabbos, after 3:30 pm every day... plenty of time to destroy the house and sit on his baby brother.

imokay

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 5:21 pm

some might ask y they r so short. it's all relative what u personally consider long or short.

in direct response to your query, I believe the hours are such bc these r the hours the majority of parents were happy with. the select few who want to keep their kids home with them for longer amount of times r not so many. I'm not saying if this is good or bad, but simply reality. the businesses evolve to give the customers what they want. in this case, the parents r happy with these kind of hours.

on a side note, yes, 2 year old playgroup is basically glorified daycare, that's true. but it is nice to be able to get things done and you have the whole early evening and evening to spend one on one time with your kid if u so desire. there r plenty of people who choose not to send to playgroup at this age.

once they turn 3, I dont know about your child(ren) but mine r so much happier playing with other kids. on their off days, they were so bored and craved the routine their nursery program provided. I think the 5 days a week is good for them- bc it establishes routine. my kids always came home happy so I guess the lngth of day wasnt too much for them.

I dont feel like I need to spend the entire day with my children to give them quality time.

in kindergarten, they already r learning hebrew lessons as well as secular lessons. they need more time to cover both. especially since in kindergarten, they r starting to learn the letters and the learning level has greatly increased. once pre 1 a comes, the curriculum gets more intense, hence the lengthening of day.

amother

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 5:24 pm

Anyone who knows my kids knows they are not easy kids. Far far from it, especially when it comes to my younger one. And my husband works 80 hrs a week, with neither of our families around. So I understand that many women in my position, or even not, would like the help. But that's not everyone. So those hrs shouldn't be mandatory. I maintain that in any other community that length of time away from home would be called childcare, not "school."

Ima'la

Wed, Nov 05 2008, 2:55 am

I think one of the reasons it's such a long day is because a lot of mothers are working. So, yes, I guess your "daycare" terminology has some validity. When I was in Pre-1A, 9-4, my mother was a SAHM and picked me up early (I guess around lunchtime). The school only let her do that b/c she was paying full tuition anyway, though.

Here in E"Y, dd is in 2nd grade and school is 8:10 - 1:10! I think a little longer might be good - like until 2:30 (like 5.5 yo ds!) but I definitely think it's better than how it would be if we'd be living in America and she wouldn't get home until close to 5 - to start homework, supper, bath/bedtime ------- and don't 6 and 7 (and 8-10) year olds still need to PLAY?!?!?!?! (I guess that's what Sunday's for!)

Mrs Bissli

Wed, Nov 05 2008, 6:36 am

Here in England, we start official schooling one year earlier than in the US. (5yo as Yr 1 = 1st grade).
My 3yo in the nursery class started with half day (9-1), now does full day (8:45-3:30) 4days week and
short day on Fridays in winter. And no nap time in-between. He comes home tired, in bed by 7:30.

I think the long day also makes it easier for mothers with older siblings--I'm glad I don't have to make multiple school runs to pick them up at different times.

MamaBear

Wed, Nov 05 2008, 10:07 am

I completely agree with you, OP. I have the same issue. I choose to just take them out early when I can and keep them home when I feel like it. I still pay the full amount which I hate, of course. There are no activities for the over age 2 set where I live, so it's pre-k or nothing. Especially come winter - if every other kid (and seriously I know no one not in pre-k by age 3) is in school, and there are no organized activities like a gym class or music class geared towards kids over 2, what do you do all week? The kids need some child interaction, some organized activity, playdates, something. It's not like in summer when you can just run around outside all day.

This is the analogy I gave my husband last night when I brought up the topic after reading this. We believe having one parent stay at home is the ideal. But if we sent our kids to daycare and they came home happy, that would not then become the ideal. Just because they're happy in the situation doesn't mean there isn't a better one. Same thing with school. My kids may enjoy their time at preschool but that doesn't mean a shorter day wouldn't be better for them and for the family dynamic.

And even with all the ABC, brachos, aleph bet learning, etc, the majority of the day is free play, storytime, arts and crafts, etc. No 3 yr old needs that for 6 hours a day. It's laughable. Put the real learning plus some free play in the first few hrs and call the rest extended day for those who want/need it.

Mama Bear

Wed, Nov 05 2008, 10:35 am

My son's cheder starts at about 10'ish. From 10:15 - 10:45 is breakfast. 10:45, bathroom time. 11 - 12:30, davening, parsha stories, arts & crafts, coloring etc. 12:30 - 1, lunch. 1:00, bathroom time. 1:15 - 2:30, free play. by 2:30 theyre back in their bus stop classrooms already. the day isnt so long!! It's not 6 hours of free play. He's out of the house from 9:45 to 3;20 which gives me a chance to do SOMETHING; once he's home from cheder my day is 'over' - all I do is pry him off his baby brother, clean up his messes, and try to keep him occupied. When he only has a 'half day' like Friday, it's really not enough.

montrealmommy

Wed, Nov 05 2008, 12:02 pm

as a working parent - I am on the flip side of the equation: I need longer hours and yes, I call it daycare - they can call it nursery or pre-k or whatever, for me it's structured (reltively) jewish dacare so I can pay the bills.

Who says the hours are mandatory? Keep your kid home, pick up early, etc... even at my son's program, many kids come late or leave beofre the 'official' end of the day. You may not get financial cempensation for not being there the whole time, but that's your choice as a parent. Whenever I have a day off, my kids get time with mommy - so what if they miss a day of school (IMO) - at age 4 and 2, really!

amother

Wed, Nov 05 2008, 12:45 pm

The teachers vocalize their discontent with early pickup (even if you say it'll be the same time every day) b/c they say other kids will then cry for Mommy. They say it disrupts the day. And, when pre-k in some parts of NY costs $10K (!!!), less hrs equals less money. Good for the families who don't need extended hrs, obviously not as good for the school who's interest is not just in the child but maximizing profits.

montrealmommy

Wed, Nov 05 2008, 2:23 pm

amother - I didn't realizee that anything short of Elem. School was that expensive~ ouch!

As for picking up early - I understand the teacher's dilema - but you as the mom are your child's advocate and although it is nice to be considerate of the other children, your main concern is what is best for your child. IMHO, children in pre-k should not be crying when another child is picked up, esp. when it's an every day thing.

gold21

Wed, Nov 05 2008, 8:08 pm

The 3 year old group that I'm looking into is from 9 to 3. Is this the standard in brooklyn? Anyone know? Its around the corner from my house, so he would not have to take the bus there, which is a big bonus imho.

Currently his playgroup (which is fantastic, certainly not glorified babysitting) runs from 10 to 2, and he does very well there...though I do often bring him late so he's often not there the full time...

Just wondering about next year...

Opinions?

gryp

Wed, Nov 05 2008, 8:12 pm

My 3 yr old goes from 9-2 and he loves every minute of it. He throws tantrums every Sunday when his older brother goes off to school and he stays home.
I give him a break though once in a while. Today he decided to stay home and I had no problem with that. No need to send a 3 yr old to school every single day. The teachers get annoyed but I really can't help that.

amother

Wed, Nov 05 2008, 8:41 pm

amother wrote:

Does Chabad have such long hours? Their website claims flexibility. What about Gan Miriam at RJC? Plenty of Modern Orthodox send their kids to the Riverdale Temple Nursery School, which definitely has half-days for 3s and 4s; there have been years when fully half the class was Orthodox. I thought that the Y (where even more MO send their kids) has the same short days. The Y is completely kosher, and RTNS requires that all food given to the kids as a group be kosher.

Anon to avoid identifying where I live.