Someone sent me "the ancient text"

Tamiri

Mon, Nov 10 2008, 3:22 am

ראו זה פלא: הנביא יחזקאל מנבא שאובאמה יהיה הנשיא

כנסו לספר יחזקאל פרק לח פסוק ב
הנביא אומר: "בֶּן אָדָם שִׂים פָּנֶיךָ אֶל גּוֹג אֶרֶץ הַמָּגוֹג נְשִׂיא רֹאשׁ מֶשֶׁךְ וְתֻבָל וְהִנָּבֵא עָלָיו. וְאָמַרְתָּ כֹּה אָמַר אֲ-ד-ֹנ-ָי –יְה-וִ-ה הִנְנִי אֵלֶיךָ גּוֹג נְשִׂיא רֹאשׁ מֶשֶׁךְ וְתֻבָל"

סיפרו החל מהמילה נשיא, החל מהאות א בדילוג של שבע אותיות תגיעו לאות ו סיפרו שבע אותיות נוספות תגיעו לאות ב סיפרו שבע אותיות נוספות תגיעו לאות א סיפרו שבע אותיות נוספות ותגיעו לאות מ ועוד שבע אותיות תגיעו לאות ה
והרי לכם " א ו ב א מ ה "

"..נְשִׂיא רֹאשׁ מֶשֶׁךְ וְתֻבָל וְהִנָּבֵא עָלָיו וְאָמַרְתָּ כֹּה אָמַר אֲ-ד-ֹנ-ָי י-ְה-וִ-ה הִנְנִי אֵלֶיךָ גּוֹג נְשִׂיא רֹאשׁ מֶשֶׁךְ וְתֻבָל"

הנביא מדבר על מלחמת גוג ומגוג.
מסתבר שבתקופת מלחמת גוג ומגוג
הנשיא יהיה אובאמה...!?

צירוף מקרים?

או מה

ora_43

Mon, Nov 10 2008, 5:14 am

This reminds me of when I first came to Israel a few years ago--someone was showing me how "Torah codes" predicted the 9/11 attack and the towers falling. What a shame that they didn't figure that out until 2002, right? Same here--if only they'd realized it was Obama before he started the presidential race (seeing as it's so obvious and all...) maybe someone could have started working with him a few years ago...

shosh

Mon, Nov 10 2008, 5:19 am

Are we all supposed to start panicking now or something?

Tamiri

Mon, Nov 10 2008, 5:21 am

No. We have to wait till they can FORESEE the future, not predict it in hindsight. ROFL.

shosh

Mon, Nov 10 2008, 5:22 am

Yeah, their radars are always getting it wrong, aren't they!!???!!!

EvenI

Mon, Nov 10 2008, 5:49 am

There is general significance to the phenomenon of Torah codes but their nature is such that they cannot be used to predict the future. Here's why:

Evaluation of Torah codes is a question of statistical significance. You can always find any equidistant letter sequence you want in any large text, if you keep increasing the size of the interval between letters until you find it. They can be said to exist in the Torah in the sense that you can find them with smaller intervals than in other texts and you can find them close to sequences that spell related words and close to relevant texts.

There was once a study published by some Israeli statisticians, in which they searched for the minimum interval equidistant letter sequence for each of a certain list of important personages (some Rabbis or gedolim, I'm not sure who) death dates and the minimum interval equidistant letter sequence for each person 's name and measured the distance between the two in each case. Then they calculated a significance value and did the same for a number of control texts, such as war and peace in hebrew, and came out with an incredible significance value in the end.

The whole idea is that you can search for words when you already know that they are meaningful and you can search for related words as well. The significance of what you find is in the numbers, such as the minimum interval, the closeness to a related possuk, whether there is a cluster of minimum sequences for related words etc. If the numbers are statistically significant, there would seem to be an indication that knowledge of the event was built into the text by the author, who could only have been Divine.

If you wanted to use it to predict the future, first you would have to know what to look for and second, you would not be able to interpret the relationship between things that occur close together. For example, if you see didn't know who Obama was and you found the minimum interval equidistant letter sequence for his name close to the same for the words "Nasi," and "Amerca," you wouldn't know if he was supposed to be the next president of America or a the assassinator of the next president of America or some leader from another country who would conquer America etc. In fact, the fact that you can't use it to predict the future only serves to strengthen the significance of it - the point being that only the author could predict the future.

I went to the trouble of explaining all this just because I have heard too often people come up with ta'anas against all this when the ta'anas they used are not valid. I even read a letter to a paper once in which someone denigrated the statisticians for not using control texts. If you read the paper they published, it is explicitly stated that they used control texts.

Having said all this, I don't think it's really possible for us to evaluate the significance of this particular example outside the laboratory, as it were. There is only one sequence, the interval is 7, there are only 5 letters in the sequence, there are no other sequences mentioned, and we don't know what you can usually find in any random text.

Mommy3.5

Mon, Nov 10 2008, 10:06 pm

I'm not seeing the code, can someone translate and point it out?

Mama Bear

Mon, Nov 10 2008, 11:12 pm

Obama can be spelled in many different ways. it certainly dot not have an 'h' at the end! I say it's spelled אבמא and not the way they did! why the 'h'??

Crayon210

Mon, Nov 10 2008, 11:14 pm

Because you're spelling it the way it would be spelled in Yiddish, and the Torah wasn't written in Yiddish. ;-)

Mama Bear

Mon, Nov 10 2008, 11:35 pm

not true. things dont end with a "hey" if there is no h!

Bambamama

Mon, Nov 10 2008, 11:53 pm

It is spelled that way in Israeli news, so it seems אובאמה is the mainstream, accepted way of spelling his name in Hebrew.

Tamiri

Tue, Nov 11 2008, 12:03 am

אובאמה
would be the correct way of spelling to ensure proper pronunciation, without nikud, in Hebrew.
Of course there's a ה at the end, how else would you get the מ to have an "ah" sound? Without the ה it would say Obam

GAMZu

Tue, Nov 11 2008, 12:21 am

Mindy dear, "h" does not equal "hey."
There are no transliteration rules from English to Hebrew. From Heb. to Eng, some people do put an "h" for a "hey" but not necessarily.
Try Sara, Chaya, Malka, sukka, mikva...

SuperMama

Tue, Nov 11 2008, 12:26 am

Mama Bear is saying that things don't have to be spelled with a hei who says its a hei and not an alef??? There are hebrew words that end is ah and do not have a hei... how about eema or abba for instance??? She is just saying there are other ways to spell it who says it HAS to have this hei.

SuperMama

Tue, Nov 11 2008, 12:28 am

Tamiri wrote:

eema- אמא... abba– אבא... ra–רע... mora – מורא(as in fear)...there are many more

Isramom8

Tue, Nov 11 2008, 12:51 am

Bambamama wrote:

It is spelled that way in Israeli news, so it seems אובאמה is the mainstream, accepted way of spelling his name in Hebrew.

The point

Tamiri

Tue, Nov 11 2008, 12:53 am

SuperMama wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

eema- אמא... abba– אבא... ra–רע... mora – מורא(as in fear)...there are many more

Yes, those are specific Torah words ending with alef, which get the "ah" sound. Modern words or new ones (such as Obama) would not use an alef to get the "ah" sound.

Isramom8

Tue, Nov 11 2008, 1:02 am

The Israeli newspapers decided that Obama has an Aleph at the end, so that's the accepted spelling.

hadasa

Tue, Nov 11 2008, 1:40 am

Just for the record, as they say, Ima and Aba are Aramaic. The Alef at the end of the word signifies the definite article in Aramaic. The Hebrew form would be "ha'av" and "ha'eim". The common form dates from Talmudic times. In Tanach, apparently, fathers were called "avi" by their children. (e.g. Akeidas Yitzchak, Elisha to Eliyahu...)

I'm not trying to make a statement either way about the codes, just a bit of grammatical info.

Isramom8

Tue, Nov 11 2008, 1:42 am

hadasa wrote:

So what's the problem? Ha'President.