non jewish Music | Imamother

amother

Thu, Feb 19 2009, 1:40 pm

Today I sat down at the computer and my 14 year old daughter's ipod was recharging so I glanced at the music she has downloaded and was surprised to see she has some non-jewish music on there. She's going to a Bais Yaakov school in Israel and this would definitely not be approved of and her father and I do not listen to this stuff anymore (at least not around the house or kids) so what do I do and how do I deal with this? I'm tempted to just simply remove it from her ipod and tell her that this wasn't what we had in mind when we got her the gift, or should I just ignore it and not make a big deal about it at all?

amother

Thu, Feb 19 2009, 1:45 pm

In my opinion, I don't think you should make a big deal out of it if it was just a few songs. I'm sure you know that teenagers don't like to be told what to do and what not to do. If you feel that you absolutely must say something, do it in a way that won't sound like you're preaching. I think that as long as she has some jewish music too and the non jewish music that she has is not dirty then it's not a problem. If it would be terrible non jewish music, rap with really bad language then it's a concern.

TzenaRena

Thu, Feb 19 2009, 1:50 pm

I know that some people would say to ignore it but I wouldn't. That could set a precedent. Since this is the first time you are aware of it, if you say something now, you would give her the message that you don't approve of any non jewish music. This would negate the idea that you only react if it's something "really assur", while some non jewish music could be "okay". Which is a message of inconsistency, and will result in very relaxed standards, if any at all.

I think it's perfectly fine to let your daughter know that a gift such as this is given with the trust that she will use it properly, and that you consider her capable of being responsible, but if she shows that it's not the case, she should understand that privileges such as these can be revoked.

You do write that you listen to music of this sort, just not around the kids, and it could be that she's picking up on this, and thinks that she can do the same - listen to it while not around her parents or teachers Exclamation

Here's the importance of our own example Exclamation

amother

Thu, Feb 19 2009, 2:33 pm

Avril Lavigne, Rihanna, dance music, nothing terribly offensive. Tzena Urena really what I meant by not listening to this around the kids is that we used to listen to non jewish music much more but nowadays don't. So she knows that we are familiar with this type of music but she doesn't witness or hear us listening to it anymore. It is something in our past that we do refer to sometimes, but it's not what we are now.

shnitzel

Thu, Feb 19 2009, 2:41 pm

I am not coming from this as a parent but DH and works with teenagers and forbidding things doesn't seem to work well, we hear the teens side after they've been yelled at. You can tell her kindly why you don't listen to non jewish music and why you prefer she doesn't. Ask her why she is listening to it and say you were surprised. But getting mad and assuring it and taking things away just makes teens angry and doesn't teach them anything. Teen brains are not generally wired well to understand and accept and improve from criticism. I've never met a teen who changed their behaviour because their parents didn't approve. It usually works the other way - it makes them work. You can give them chizuk and be role models.

Yakira

Thu, Feb 19 2009, 9:22 pm

amother wrote:

If you used to listen to 'non jewish' music often, and I'm assuming that includes when you were a teen, why does it bother you so much that your daughter is doing the same?

chocolate moose

Thu, Feb 19 2009, 9:55 pm

Yakira wrote:

amother wrote:

If you used to listen to 'non jewish' music often, and I'm assuming that includes when you were a teen, why does it bother you so much that your daughter is doing the same?

I could understand amother's comment. She wants her kids to be better than she was. They have tons of Kosher music nowadays that we didn't have in the past.

ss321

Thu, Feb 19 2009, 9:56 pm

two points:

1.

shnitzel wrote:

I've never met a teen who changed their behaviour because their parents didn't approve.

kudos to shnitzel. 100% right.
2.

amother wrote:

It is something in our past that we do refer to sometimes, but it's not what we are now.

amother, you sound a bit inconsistent. first you said, you listen, but not around the kids. then you say you did listen, but dont anymore, and only refer to non jewish music as something in your past in the home. so a) you cant have it all. you discuss it, you bring it into your home, you cannot expect your kids to not be curios. and b) think about it. you listened to non-jewish music, and look at where you are now-if you say its nothing that terrible-let it go! she needs to grow up and figure it out on her own. If you tell her "you cant"-like shnitzel said-that doesnt mean she wont--- it just means she will find ways to hide it better. and trust me, there are. teens are far more techno savvy for the most part...so...

TzenaRena

Thu, Feb 19 2009, 11:32 pm

amother wrote:

okay, so it's only in your past. In that case I would suggest leaving it there and not referring to it at all. Because that could be seen as tacit acknowledgment that it's not so bad. Their reasoning would be: if it was, Mommy would be ashamed to tell us kids about it, or refer to it.

You don't want your kids to see that you can't have this music, but still long for it, or get nostalgic about it, because that in itself gives it legitimacy.

You don't want to convey any interest that will carry over to your kids because even if it's "not so bad", it's still not what you want for your kids, and you are right to want to create an environment for them that is all Yiddishkeit, without secular influences or compromise.

speaking from experience, kids will take any 'shvachkeit" we exhibit in frumkeit and outdo us parents ten times over.

BeershevaBubby

Fri, Feb 20 2009, 6:31 am

amother wrote:

Why does it have to be these two extremes? Why can't you have a conversation with her where you express what you'd like, you can ask her where she got the music from, she can express her opinions and then you can come to a happy compromise.

By deleting it, she'll see it as invading her 'privacy'. By ignoring it, she'll continue a pattern of behavior you don't like.

When she first received the ipod, did you set down the 'Terms of Service' as it were, regarding what your expectations and privileges were regarding access to the ipod and veto power?

When my girls got their cellphones, MP3 players, when they signed on to Facebook or use the computers/internet in general, it is all with the understanding that I have final say. Of course I don't go barreling through their choices, if I see something they're into I don't think is appropriate, we'll discuss it first.. and then I get my way Smile

NotInNJMommy

Fri, Feb 20 2009, 6:49 am

Another aspect:

What is her school's policy on this music? If they are rather shtark and strict, sending her back to school with it (or without at least a strong warning against bringing it back there) will set her up to be disciplined by the hanhola, which may happen anyways, but at least the parent has done their part to support the school's policies by voicing disapproval.

I think there are ways to voice disapproval without being a tyrant. Just because the "kid will likely want to do it anyways" (whatever "it" means) doesn't mean that we as parents shouldn't make our stance on "it" clear in an appropriate way.

chavamom

Fri, Feb 20 2009, 10:36 am

Shnitzel is right. One of the lessons that I have found out being the parent of teens is that we have very little control. That era is OVER. If it becomes a problem that she is playing it in the house around your other kids, you can set limits like "I understand this is what you are doing, you know our opinion on the matter, so please keep it where we can't hear it". Trust me, she knows what you and the school think and she is choosing to do otherwise right now. If you make a big issue out of it, she will most likely just be sneakier about what she is doing in the future...

Tova2

Fri, Feb 20 2009, 10:49 am

1. The 'era' is so not over! we just have to know how to deal with the new era!!! as some had written - it should not be told to her in the mussar kind of way just because it was something she might think you 'sneaked' in on. since it wasn't something you had seen openly, she may not even listen to what you have to say - she'll just be mad at the fact that 'you listened to the music I have????" it gotta be said in a kind of way that you are surprised at what she listening...
but...
2. first and foremost, you've got to set your own idealisms straight! you say that you don't listen to the music in a while, does she know that you don't listen to it bec it isn't 'kosher', or does she remember you listening to it, and the not listening was just a by the way? she's got to know your standards! she may not even know you care about such things!!!! When children know what the standards of the parents are, -and they know them when they are set straight, not just 'we stopped listening', they will automatically behave likewise. (except if there are outside influences!!!)

Hatzlacha rAba on whatever you decide to do!

Barbara

Fri, Feb 20 2009, 10:51 am

She's not listening to *non jewish* music. *non jewish* music is gospel or church music, extolling the virtues of a false messiah. She's listening to SECULAR music. After all, you wouldn't call the Beastie Boys or Bob Dylan (to use some oldies) *non jewish* now, would you?

Like it or not, once they figure out how to get music onto their iPods on their own, without the benefit of your credit card for iTunes, there's not much you can do about it.

I wouldn't let her know that you looked on her iPod; that's only going to get her to hide things from you. Instead, pick an opportune time -- like 3 months or 6 months after she got it, and tell her that you wanted to review the rules, given the passage of time. Let her know your reasons for preferring that she not listen to secular music, and remind her that you've placed a good deal of trust in her, and are sure she'll live up to it.

greenfire

Fri, Feb 20 2009, 12:41 pm

Barbara wrote:

you forgot chaim klein ... KISS gene simmons Tongue Out

- definitely not "non jewish" Twisted Evil