Who wrote the Torah?

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youngmom

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 5:43 pm

I'm a little bit confused. Doesn't it say that Hashem dictated to Moshe and Moshe wrote the Torah? Well, if so, then what was around b/4? Doesn't it say too that Hashem looked into the Torah and created the world? Wasn't the Torah around b/4 creation?
If someone can help me here I'd really appreciate it.

Blossom

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 6:31 pm

Maybe because the Torah was in heaven until it was given to us.

Blossom

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 6:33 pm

And once it was being given to us it had to be written down.
Just one thought.

youngmom

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 8:59 pm

anyone else know anything about this?

Motek

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 9:06 pm

youngmom wrote:

all the letters that we have in the Torah were there before creation but the unfolding of events weren't written down until they actually happened and so the letters were not divided into the words as we have them

for example, in parshas Mishpatim it says that Moshe wrote down the Torah from the beginning until Mattan Torah

but the chochma in Torah was known, we know that Yaakov learned in yeshiva, for example

and the malochim learned Torah before it was given too

youngmom

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 9:12 pm

Thanks Motek for the info.

I'm just not sure how I'm going to explain this to my students. It's a bit of a spiritual, lofty idea....

Motek

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 9:15 pm

how old are your students and why do you have to explain it? how did it come up?

you can say (Zohar) that the letters of the Torah are Hashem's names

they also spell words!

youngmom

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 9:18 pm

high school students - they aren't frum.

we are learning about creation and the question came up.

youngmom

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 9:19 pm

[quote]you can say (Zohar) that the letters of the Torah are Hashem's names

they also spell words![/quote]

I'm not quite sure I understand what you wrote here. Can you rephrase it?

Motek

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 9:23 pm

my husband suggests that you discuss the inyan of names with them

what does it mean that Adam named the animals

that a name expresses the essence

and so the Torah consists of G-d's names

in this amazing piece by Tzvi Freeman called "The Adam Files" he writes about naming things and the significance of the 22 letters of the alef-beis

http://www.chabad.org/library/.....=2570

it's a long piece, wonder whether high school kids would get a kick out of freeman's presentation

youngmom

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 9:29 pm

Quote:

my husband suggests that you discuss the inyan of names with them

what does it mean that Adam named the animals

that a name expresses the essence

actually, I did!! we discussed it in length! we went on to discuss the importance of jewish names too etc.

I just don't understnad what hashem's names in the 22 alef beis has to do with the torah being around b/4...

I really appreciate your help motek!!

RivkaS

Mon, Feb 27 2006, 5:56 am

youngmom wrote:

high school students - they aren't frum.

we are learning about creation and the question came up.

Go to Torah.org/Discussionforum and look for that topic there. We had a good discussion about that subject there which came up with explanations that might satisfy the non-observant students.

Motek

Thu, Mar 02 2006, 9:57 am

youngmom wrote:

I just don't understnad what hashem's names in the 22 alef beis has to do with the torah being around b/4...

because the form that it was in before, was as a long string of letters which form various names of Hashem

youngmom

Thu, Mar 02 2006, 3:37 pm

Thanx again Motek.
We're learning Chumash Bereishis and it's amazing to see how many basic topics in Yiddishkeit are discussed there. I get tons of questions every class about evolution, the Torah, homosexuality (in connection to Vidavak B'ishto, end of Perek Beis), etc etc. It's really a big challenge for me to keep up with all this but I'm glad I'm doing this. I'm learning so much from it!

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