Are you eating Korn's baked products despite

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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

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Mevater

Tue, May 26 2009, 9:04 am

Are you eating Korn's baked products despite Volover Rov taking his HashgacHa off and not giving a clear explanation?

They have 2 other Hashgachos, but Volover Rov is highly respected.

http://www.vosizneias.com/3233.....sher/

ChutzPAh

Tue, May 26 2009, 10:04 am

I didn't read VIN, but unfortunately, sometimes hashgachas go into the realm of political instead of halacha.

ChutzPAh

Tue, May 26 2009, 10:06 am

just read it. it claims that there was falsification of labels.

Love My Babes

Tue, May 26 2009, 10:07 am

I was waiting for someone to post this...please read the whole article before saying this. I read the article online and it says they currently have 2 hashgachos that are good so there are no problems. for all u know they changed their mashgiach so he is just telling everyone he took off the hashgacha without saying they still have one!! it doesnt say his stuff is not kosher!!

greenfire

Tue, May 26 2009, 10:12 am

politics and kashrus should not go hand in hand ... how awful ...

ss321

Tue, May 26 2009, 10:19 am

yes. we still are. its all political, unfortunately. and that is a fact not my opinion, DH and I know the family well. very unfortunate

chocolate moose

Tue, May 26 2009, 10:43 am

Don't they have the OK too ?

amother

Tue, May 26 2009, 10:59 am

Yes, I absolutely would eat them. Moshe Leib and Ciril Stern are absolutely amazing people with tremendous yiras shamayim. They are gigantic baalei chessed.

sunshine!

Tue, May 26 2009, 11:00 am

From what I understand, it seems as if they made products in a different bakery and put their label on it, which seems to be a violation of the rules of the hechsher. The volover hechsher is only on things made in that bakery. It is not a kashrus issue per-se, just a technical issue.

TzenaRena

Tue, May 26 2009, 11:01 am

hechsherim don't <always> get taken off for political reasons. Kashrus reasons happen. The family of the business affected will usually claim it's political. I would probably wait to see what happens, get more clarification before continuing to use such a product, even or especially with a new hechsher.

ss321

Tue, May 26 2009, 11:09 am

TzenaRena wrote:

I know that! in this case though, being that we know the family and DH heard what isnt published on VIN, well continue to eat their stuff. Just like we would eat at their house....they are ehlirche Jews and we trust them Smile

not saying everyone has to or everyone should. just answering OP's question.

TzenaRena

Tue, May 26 2009, 11:13 am

sunshine! wrote:

This "technical" issue can be a huge kashrus issue. Company A making products in a different bakery - Company B - means that you're assuming that all the machinery and equipment in THAT bakery is in accordance with your own hechsher's requirements, both in supervision, ingredients used there for products they manufacture for their own use. If it's unauthorized by your own hechsher, it's more than likely to be a real problem, not a technicality.

If standards and everything else are not identical to those of your own kashrus supervising agency, kashering could be necessary, to get it there. Was there kashering, was it done to the standard of Company A's hechsher? So many opportunities for something to be not just a technical violation, but a kashrus one. Technical violations ARE kashrus violations, imo.

gryp

Tue, May 26 2009, 11:27 am

I haven't heard about this issue, but does anyone really read VIN as a reliable news source? I've read so many articles that had an obvious slant to them, I've starting taking everything I read there with a huge grain of salt.

TzenaRena

Tue, May 26 2009, 11:30 am

Just to add that the owners sound like special people. I hope they can straighten things out with the hechsher, and continue to prosper,

however I've heard such cases before, and sometimes the owners won't try to amend what they did wrong and the hechsher gets taken off. it doesn't have to be that way, why can't people bend (I don't mean the mashgiach Wink

), admit to their error, correct it, and adhere to the standard even if it's more of a hassle?

ETA that I don't know what happened there, so not necessarily does the above apply here, that anyone knowingly did something wrong.

amother

Tue, May 26 2009, 11:46 am

Korns/ Sterns has one facility AFAIK. The one on 15th ave. Is the Rav claiming that they baked in someone else's facility?
So odd. Not something I'd imagine Moshe Leib doing at all.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, May 26 2009, 1:42 pm

amother wrote:

Korns/ Sterns has one facility AFAIK. The one on 15th ave. Is the Rav claiming that they baked in someone else's facility?
So odd. Not something I'd imagine Moshe Leib doing at all.

they also have a branch in teaneck, just wanted to point out.

bubby

Tue, May 26 2009, 2:06 pm

I hate to say it, but VIN is not a particularly ethical news site. They tend to be very provocative & selective when it comes to posting responses. I asked a question: is this a Kashrus issue or a monetary situation & if Kashrus is the issue, what exactly was wrong (I couldn't understand the letter, brain shut-down) & my post wasn't put up. What bothered me is that much of what is posted there is controversially done just to get a rise out of the regulars!

I don't know why my question wasn't posted. I meant no disrespect to the Volover Rav, but I am sure I'm not the only doofette who was confused. I rarely buy from BP bakeries, so it doesn't really affect me, but I am reminded of the terrible effects of the hot dog debacle on an ehrliche deli owner a couple of months ago. It would be awful if the same condemnation goes on the owners of Korn's for no real reason & their business suffers.

As there are still other hechsherim there, it adds to the confusion. And why this is big news is beyond me. I see in the Jewish Press many "XXX is no longer under our supervision" notices. Why is this so different or so terrible? Hechsherim change all the time.

chatz

Sun, May 31 2009, 5:26 pm

I don't know the details.. I don't want to know the details.

For a simple reason:

Hechsharim = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Any issue with hechshayrim needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. If there are other reliable hechshayrim on their products, what's the big deal?

I know a restaurant owner who couldn't pay the $$$$$$ for the hechshar and switched to a different one. The old hechshar made a big announcement that the he's taking off his hashgacha from the reastaurant - which sounds really bad, obviously.

I remember seeing in the Jewish Press on one page "Hachgacha X is taking off its Hashgacha from So and So" in bold, ominous letters.. and an announcement on the very next page "Hashgacha Y is pround to announce that we are now covering So and So"....

chatz

Sun, May 31 2009, 5:28 pm

Just to add:

In a similar vein, I have heard people who, when leaving a job, let their contacts in other companies know that the business is closing. Sad

Not good - but it happens...

sunspot

Sun, May 31 2009, 5:43 pm

the problem arises usually when the replaced hechsher is mediocre to the original one. that usually signifies problems

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