Giving a Pregnant woman your seat

amother

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 1:48 am

new amother here
I'd just like to give my penny's worth
I'm totally with all of you about the fact that people need to get up and let me preface what I'm going to say by telling you I have problems with my legs, they hurt after standing a while and I also feel faint when standing in one spot, yet I'm usually the first person in a room to notice when someone doesn't have a seat and I'm usually the first or one of the first to offer my own. I've even offered a seat when I was pregnant to someone less pregnant then me because no one else was getting up and she looked like she was plutzing.
Nevertheless I'd like to point out that we don't know what individual people are going through.
Like the woman that posted earlier that is on fertility treatments that was making her sick and a woman was shoving her belly in her face to make her get up.
Kid's speak has a story about a kid that was yelled at by everyone on a bus for not getting up and looked so upset and embarrassed but still wouldn't get up. Finally after everyone made him feel so aw full he got up and struggled with his disabled legs off the bus. Now I don't know if all kids speak stories are true but it's something to think about anyway.

now just a little point that bugs me a lot for some reason....

amother wrote:

im in early pregnancy now and I think im much worse off than those whose balance is off

Just curious, is this your first pregnancy or have you been pregnant b4?
I'm asking because I hate it when people say "I'm worse of than....."
HELLO!!!!!
how would you know how much another person is suffering or not to say you are worse off.
I've been sick in early pregnancy enough to need a seat and I've been sore and off balance in later pregnancy enough to need a seat. I don't remember which was worse but I'd never compare.

The rest of your post I agree with

As to the OP I'm not really responding to her post because what I have to say is too harsh for me to post to a total stranger!
btw her attitude is not unique, there was a thread ages ago with someone saying the same thing

BeershevaBubby

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 2:03 am

amother wrote:

Personally on the whole issue I feel a person is not obligated to give up their seat, but it's a nice thing to do.

Ah.. wrong. Mipnei sevah takum, vehadarta penei zaken.

I think most people feel it's 'more wrong' here in Israel or on the Willi-BP/Monsey bus because as Jews, we're supposedly taught the very fundamental mitzvah of Mipnei Sevah Takum. 'We' should know better. Behave better. Set a better example.

Seraph

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 2:34 am

YESHASettler wrote:

amother wrote:

Personally on the whole issue I feel a person is not obligated to give up their seat, but it's a nice thing to do.

yea, but pregnant woman are not sevah or zaken (unless they're involved in fertility treatments past age 60 or 70)...

BeershevaBubby

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 2:47 am

Seraph wrote:

YESHASettler wrote:

amother wrote:

Personally on the whole issue I feel a person is not obligated to give up their seat, but it's a nice thing to do.

yea, but pregnant woman are not sevah or zaken (unless they're involved in fertility treatments past age 60 or 70)...

But the Amother didn't specify.

And it's been my experience that people who don't get up for visibly pregnant women don't get up for seniors either.

Seraph

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 3:01 am

YESHASettler wrote:

Seraph wrote:

YESHASettler wrote:

amother wrote:

Personally on the whole issue I feel a person is not obligated to give up their seat, but it's a nice thing to do.

yea, but pregnant woman are not sevah or zaken (unless they're involved in fertility treatments past age 60 or 70)...

But the Amother didn't specify.

But one would assume that seeing as the topic of the thread is standing up for pregnant woman, that that is what she was referring to. Could be I'm wrong though.

Quote:

And it's been my experience that people who don't get up for visibly pregnant women don't get up for seniors either.

Too true, too true. But, whereas the first isnt such a nice thing (and might fall under the halacha of viahavta lireacha kamocha- do to others as you would like done unto you), the second is an issur. So its not really fair to equate the two of them. Halacha also doesnt require you to stand up for crippled people, people with babies, someone who looks faint, etc... but common sense and common decency should.

sped

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 3:06 am

I will never forget this: Years ago (at least 15), I was on the Will- BP bus and overheard a girl saying, "My mother tells me I shouldn't get up for older/pregnant people. I pay the same amount as they do, I have the same right to my seat". Shall I say I was bowled over?? Both by the comment, and that she wasn't embarressed to repeat it???
AS a child I was taugh to get up if anyone older than I iwas standing.

jerusalem-girl

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 3:28 am

sped wrote:

jerusalem-girl

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 3:42 am

Standing up for an older person, eishes chaver, or someone more choshuv than you, is halacha.

Everything else is basic decency.
Do you have to get up for someone that is crippled? Well, that depends on if you have to be a decent person or not. Your choice, but I don't really believe this should be optional.
Do you have to get up for a woman that is preganant? See above.

I don't like comparing to people that are in early months pregnancy or otherwise not feeling well. I can't help it if I don't see your pain. If I do see a woman in her later months, or holding a toddler, or otherwise looking very unwell, why should I not get up for her? Because someone else that is standing or sitting may feel even worse?!?!?
Personally, I stand whenver there is a shortage of seats on the bus. I know I'm feeling alright, and I can't be sure about anyone else.
I don't know if I'm right about this, but even when I'm not feeling well (I have a nearly incompacitating form of PMS), I will get up for any married woman or anyone that looks overwhelmed. I trust myself to stand, but sometimes people look really pale or stressed out.

Yes, it isn't just about rules, because a pregnant woman may feel better than I do at certain parts of the month.
But if you teach a child, stand up for an older person, the Torah commands it. Stand up for a crippled person, he's having such a hard time, and you baruch hashem have 2 healthy feet. Stand up for this woman, she looks like she is not feeling well...You are raising a decent human being.

melbee

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 9:38 am

I also do my best to always stand for elderly, pregnant, or people carrying toddlers, although currently it seems most people just bring the whole stroller on and lift up the handicapped seats for it, so it's a non-issue (our buses have 2 sections of 3 seats each that lift up and tuck away so wheelchairs, etc. can fit).

I rarely took the bus pregnant, but before I was pregnant I was babysitting for my nephew (he was 2 at the time) and we got on a crowded bus. We had closed up the stroller since it took so much room, and so I was holding him, and no one offered a seat. The bus driver went on the intercom and asked anyone to give up their seat for "the woman and her child". He had to ask 3 times, and only got a response after promising whoever did it a token for a free ride, at which point a teenager finally stood up. Rolling Eyes

amother

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 11:23 am

amother wrote:

im in early pregnancy now and I think im much worse off than those whose balance is off

Quote:

Just curious, is this your first pregnancy or have you been pregnant b4?
I'm asking because I hate it when people say "I'm worse of than....."

yes ive been pregnant before. im sorry if I came across in a comparing way. I dont mean to say I can know what others are feeling, but I know that if it was today I would not get up for her, because I feel faint if I stand in one place for a few minutes at a time, and even if she cant see my pain, I know what im feeling, and truthfully im not up to standing. I sit down in stores if theres a chair, and just because my belly is not protruding yet, doesnt mean I dont deserve the seat as much as anyone else does. especially if I was already sitting when she came on. I hope I dont sound rude, but just because someone doesnt stand up for you, maybe try to think that they might be going through something themselves.

Aribenj

Fri, Jul 24 2009, 1:23 pm

Been pregnant 3 times and not ONCE in those 27 months have I been offered a seat. And I get pretty big very early on... I find it particularly disgraceful when I'm at the dr's office waiting in a full waiting room and no one gets up. I mean, I don't expect the women to get up, bc they're all pregnant, but the men waiting with their wives just have no excuse...

Even more chutzpadik: I was 9 months pg with #2 waiting in line to pay at the supermarket with 19 month old dd (who chose that moment to throw her very first tantrum). I was about to put my groceries on the table when this guy asked me if he could go first since he just had a few things.
I was just too shocked for words to answer and he proceeded to place his items on the belt, mistaking my silence for acquiescence, when the cashier asked him "Are you kidding? I'm not ringing you up. You can go to some other cashier..."

Lady Godiva

Fri, Jul 24 2009, 1:33 pm

I did not read through this whole thread, so sorry if I'm repeating a point...
I've been pregnant and standing on the subway and I did not get a seat, so I know what it feels like. That said, I don't think that every person must jump up for pregnant women. Other, non-pregnant people may have varicose issues or other reasons why they should be sitting, too. I don't think that a pregnant person deserves a seat. I think it's nice to give her a seat, but she should not expect it. If a pregnant woman really feels horrible, she could always ask, "Does anybody mind giving me a seat. I'm not feeling well..." Chances are, somebody might give up their seat.

sky

Fri, Jul 24 2009, 2:32 pm

Aribenj wrote:

This makes me so mad. I was once at the OBGYN and the husbands (at least 5) were sitting and I was standing for about an hour - in my ninth month!!! And I was not the only women standing - we got seats in the order we arrived.

Raisin

Fri, Jul 24 2009, 2:56 pm

Lady Godiva wrote:

I think I would rather faint dramatically on the floor then ask someone to give me a seat!

Raisin

Fri, Jul 24 2009, 2:56 pm

sky wrote:

Aribenj wrote:

why didn't you say soemthing to the receptionist?

PIP

Fri, Jul 24 2009, 3:05 pm

Lady Godiva wrote:

amother

Mon, Jul 27 2009, 8:31 am

I had similar experiences when pregnant in London although generally the quickest to give seats were young black men and middle aged ladies. After a certain point I developed a routine of giving people about 10 seconds to offer and then politely asking if anyone would mind giving me a seat. It worked.

Since then I have realised that you often look less pregnant than you think you are and it is very embarrassing to offer seats to people who are just overweight. Also people can have all sorts of other reasons for not being able to stand. I recently suffered a miscarriage and had to travel to work with severe pains and found it very difficult to stand. If someone pregnant had asked me for my seat then I probably would have explained why I wasn't giving it and then burst into tears.

Saying that it is common courtesy to allow other people to sit who are less able to stand it's just sometimes difficult to work out who they are.

Debbie

Wed, Aug 05 2009, 2:08 pm

Why should a youngish girl or other non-pregnant woman have a "right" to a particular seat, just because she got on a stop earlier? The person with the "right" to the seat is the one who needs it more. If people aren't willing to play by those rules (ie, they aren't willing to stand for someone who needs the seat more), let THEM be the ones to take the bus only before 6am or after 10, or to buy their own car, or to stay home.

I have arthiritis and I get lower back pain; if I'm sitting on a full bus and a pregnant lady gets on should I stand or should I just hope someone else gets up?
It's not easy to see why a non pregnant woman might remain seated when a pregnant woman gets on the bus but there can be perfectly valid reasons.