should young couples not socialize together?

hadasa

Wed, Aug 26 2009, 2:27 pm

fayge wrote:

I'm surprised that it was formally outlawed. I don't need more info but have to wonder if there were ever any incidents, or if this Rosh had heard of any reliably elsewhere and got nervous.

There don't have to have been actual "incidents". It's enough that after the meal one spouse says, thinks or feels, "How come my friend's spouse is so slim/put together/witty/cultured/etc. and mine isn't?" This type of thing happens often enough to give reason to avoid these encounters. And it's more common for newlyweds to feel insecure about their spouses and to compare them to others'.

I'm not recommending a total ban on couples inviting couples. Each situation is different and I wouldn't say it's always inappropriate. But I would say it's worth being cautious and aware of the pitfalls concealed in these situations.

PinkFridge

Wed, Aug 26 2009, 2:49 pm

Hadasa, I agree. And there are very few men, if any, I'm on a first name basis with who I'm not related to. It just seems that to me, it's better if it not be formalized. In my out of town community there are many fine frum families who have become very close, almost like family and it's not at all unhealthy.

I would hope the rosh kollel would then encourage older established families to invite the new young couples who still have mobility over so they won't feel so lonely.

Barbara

Wed, Aug 26 2009, 3:06 pm

lakewood mom wrote:

While I do have other couples over for meals, I understand why there is such a rule. The couples talk, and certain guards are let down. People begin to feel more comfortable, and may talk a little more loosely. While there is nothing wrong to say hi and be courteous to your friend's husband, many Rabbonim feel that is where it should start and end- you shouldn't have conversations- especially in a laid back relaxed atmosphere.

Thanks for explainint the basis, since it was escaping me.

It must create a very different type of community than the one to which I am accustomed. We take Shabbat lunches to a whole new level; its the way in which most families socialize. So I'm curious -- if people don't invite others for Shabbat lunch, how do they meet and socialize with others?

amother

Wed, Aug 26 2009, 4:08 pm

Barbara, it is an issue. I have lived in my neighborhood for nearly 10 years. I work during the week and the only time I have to socialize is on Shabbos. Thanks to the "no coupling" rule, I have a grand total of 1 friend, only because she and her husband also do not hold by this concept. Our husbands met in shul and my husband invited them for lunch so I met her. She grew up nearby, but also has few friends in this neighborhood, for the same reason.

I sometimes wonder what the rabonim think they are accomplishing by piling on so many restrictions. It seems like every time I turn around there is another restriction on me, my husband or my kids. I wonder if the rabonim are really in touch with real life, or just reacting to the stories they are dealing with.

levial

Wed, Aug 26 2009, 4:38 pm

I feel like such a reub. I opened this thinking there was some kind of issue with guests having relations at the host's house (coupling) embarrassed

It's not for me; I agree that many of us need socializing in family/couple units.

On the other hand, I suppose I'd organize a seudah shlishit for women if I needed to meet others in the a community that holds this way.

greenfire

Wed, Aug 26 2009, 5:33 pm

levial wrote:

I feel like such a reub. I opened this thinking there was some kind of issue with guests having relations at the host's house (coupling) embarrassed

don't worry so did I embarrassed

now for the guests only to be single you - you might inadvertently gain some out of wedlock coupling ...

perhaps people just need to poke out their eyes ... no zex - no coupling - no nada Twisted Evil

amother

Wed, Aug 26 2009, 7:54 pm

levial wrote:

I feel like such a reub. I opened this thinking there was some kind of issue with guests having relations at the host's house (coupling) embarrassed

I thought the thread was going to be about someone who was invited to sleep at some-one's house but wasn't allowed to share a room with their husband shock

amother

Wed, Aug 26 2009, 7:59 pm

Sherri wrote:

breslov101 wrote:

I am not trying to bash a whole system it just seems to take away from the ability to invite and hahve guest over. I don't see why a single guy is any safer to have over than your husband's friend and his wife? I just don't get it? The wife STILL needs to sit at the table with a strange guy (or two or three) (or is she banished to the kitchen?) Honestly its almost Impossible to not have a different gender over for shabbos and have guest unless you are a single mom with all girls inviting a single girl over or a single dad witha ll boys inviting a yeshiva guy over.

I just don't get how its MORE tznius to invite a single guy or single girl over and not a couple?

You are right, it is not, and usually those couples with such policy will invite a few guys and the wife will sit quietly, not socializing. It is a POLICY, not an arbitrary rule. It's there for a reason, and is flexible if necessary.

Actually when we have bochurim over I feel its more improper than having a couple. At least when a couple eats over theres a woman for me to talk with. When the bochurim come- Im just there to serve the food I cooked before and clean up- no socializing!

ceo

Wed, Aug 26 2009, 9:32 pm

ugh, why do people always bash rabbonim and the eitzos they give???

When we were newly married, my husband's yeshiva had a ""eitzah tova. ": young, newly married couples should not have seudos together except in specific circumstance (ie- couple x had to attend a simcha lail shabbos in the neighborhood and needed a place for lunch, etc... ..) This was not a RULE, it was a suggestion, for the reasons outlined above, by hadasa. Just to help guard the levels of tznius and boundaries regarding a marriage, especially at the begining. There was no specific, set time that a couple "outgrew" this suggestion, just depending on the family.

I know that a shul Rav here in my neighborhood mentioned this recently: young couples who have not been married so long (under 2 years or so) should not be socializing with other young couples. It's not a rule, and not meant to ensure that people don't make friends, just a suggestion in order to help maintain kedusha and shalom bayis.

MommyLuv

Wed, Aug 26 2009, 10:12 pm

Lady Godiva wrote:

greenfire wrote:

levial wrote:

I feel like such a reub. I opened this thinking there was some kind of issue with guests having relations at the host's house (coupling) embarrassed

don't worry so did I embarrassed

Me three.

OP, I've never heard of that either.

glad to know I'm not the only one who assumed that! Tongue Out

WriterMom

Wed, Aug 26 2009, 10:33 pm

Lady Godiva wrote:

greenfire wrote:

levial wrote:

I feel like such a reub. I opened this thinking there was some kind of issue with guests having relations at the host's house (coupling) embarrassed

don't worry so did I embarrassed

Me three.

OP, I've never heard of that either.

LMDO.

Good, it's not just that I've got a dirty mind.

wif

Thu, Aug 27 2009, 2:55 am

WriterMom wrote:

Lady Godiva wrote:

greenfire wrote:

levial wrote:

I feel like such a reub. I opened this thinking there was some kind of issue with guests having relations at the host's house (coupling) embarrassed

don't worry so did I embarrassed

Me three.

OP, I've never heard of that either.

LMDO.

Good, it's not just that I've got a dirty mind.

nope--just a good vocabulary,because that's what the word "coupling" actually MEANS.

catonmylap

Thu, Aug 27 2009, 3:39 am

ceo wrote:

Because they so quickly go from "eitzos" to "rules." Because pretty soon, no one knows where the rule originated from and who actually suggested it. And once there are ramifications from it, there never seems to be a Rav who stands up to correct the misconceptions and unintended consequences.

It grows from couples in the first couple years of marriage to only couples who already have 3 children, and you have isolated couples going through IF, and no one stands up to correct a little eitza to a few couples in the first couple years of marriage.

amother

Thu, Aug 27 2009, 3:50 am

in my area there's no such 'rules' by rabbanim.
but when we got married my dh said he doesnt want to eat with other couples.
firstly, I was a bit taken aback, I didnt expect it and it was uncomfortable to tell friends that we wont come. b'H we have some family so we did get invited out a lot and had plenty ppl to invite. we also invited boys but no seminary girls (only close family).
now, after three years I'm happy we had that arrangement.
I'm happy I didnt have other men to compare my dh to. how they're talking to their wives, how they serve her.....whatever. and the wives talking what the husband bought her...how much he helps her......the list goes on and on.
and yes, I love my husband but he does have some things that bother me, I'm sure everyone does.
and same the other way around. it's not necessary for dh to sit with other newlywed wives for hours...

now, three years down the line with 2 kids ba'h it's a different story. I hardly sit at the table, serving tending to the kids...we did recently invite a couple also with two kids and we had a nice time.
but I found it weird seeing my dh talking to his friend's wife, and she interupted his dvar torah, adding her 2cents...

anyways to each their own but I dont think it's necessary to bash the rabbonim, they know what they're doing and whatever it avoids, jealousy, comparing, it's worth it.

ROFL

Thu, Aug 27 2009, 5:35 am

Many years ago when we first got married we had many freinds over. Singles and couples we all shared many meals and had wonderful times. We created many shidduchim both directly or indirectly. Boys and girls meet at the shabbat table and hooked up with each other or knew freinds that will go well with each other. Young marrieds also meet each others freinds and connected. BUT all in appropriate ways. If someone wants to not be appropriate they will find a way and the shabbat table is not the only place they will choose to do it.
As for comparing other spouses I feel that people work together and help each other out as freinds should do. How come the rabbonim only think negatively. Freindships can be and are a postive way for growth not a negative thing in life.