Motivating parents

5*Mom

Wed, Jan 20 2016, 12:43 pm

amother wrote:

There are skills that can only be learned by doing. An example would be reading. Let's say I only asked the students read for 30 minutes a week. Those that read for the 30 minutes weekly strongly improved.

Again, I think you may have your cause and effect reversed. I'd like to suggest that those who are good at reading enjoy reading and are far more motivated to do their homework with or without parental involvement. Those for whom reading is difficult or challenging want nothing to do with reading, with or without parental involvement. Having a rigid, nasty teacher who has nothing but contempt for the cultural group she teaches certainly doesn't increase student motivation.

amother wrote:

Why can't you raise a well rounded child who does the their minimal homework on their own? How does this damage a child?

In the case of a child who does not feel successful and therefore dreads and avoids doing homework, a separation must be made between home and school for the emotional health and well-roundedness of the child. Making sure her difficulties and failures follow her home to what should be a safe haven and interfere with the most important relationships she will ever have can be very damaging to a child who already feels lousy about herself.

amother wrote:

Again, it is only certain parents who have the above attitude.

And it's only certain teachers who have your attitude. Your paradigm is clearly not working. You can either continue with your tantrum and insist that everyone get on board with you - how's that been working for you? - or you can open your mind a little and consider approaches and attitudes you have not considered before. Yes, it means learning new ways of teaching, which any teacher who truly wants to help her students learn would be more than willing to do.

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, Jan 20 2016, 12:45 pm

Fox wrote:

OP, I find myself a little confused about what kind of feedback you want.

Your initial question was about motivating and possibly educating parents to be more involved with their children's education.

However, that question seemed segue into how to get parents to make sure their kids do homework and a general vent about parents who don't, in your opinion, adequately value education.

Toward the end, we've veered into a discussion of activities that promote learning outside the classroom.

I think it would help to refine the questions a little.

How To Motivate Parents in General
IMHO, the anti-secular education stance comes from a variety of places, some with legitimate roots and others without. Parents who value an insular community do not want their children to develop a grass-is-greener attitude toward the larger world through education. Nor do they want to expose their kids to everything that counts as Western culture. Whether you agree or not, there is some legitimacy to this perspective, and most observant Jews do see the need to insulate their children to varying degrees.

However, parents may also claim not to value secular education because they feel judged or because they are embarrassed. Their rejection of secular education is less about the education and more about them.

The good news is that this is the strongest, most stubborn type of rejection, but it is also the easiest to overcome. I worked for about 10 years of my career with primarily inner-city minority populations (Cabrini Green, Robert Taylor Homes, and Pilsen, for those of you who know Chicago). I ran across this a lot from both young adult students and their families.

It was a slow, relentless process, but I could usually break them down! It required listening rather than talking, and finding something to respect in everyone. It required recognizing the things that worked better in their culture than in mine, and acknowledging those things.

Once they accepted the fact that I valued their experiences, opinions, and, in short, thought of them as good people, 80 percent of the battle was won. Did that mean 100 percent support? Of course not! But it meant that we were on the same side and had more-or-less the same goals.

How To Motivate Parents to Make Homework a Priority
1. Make sure the purpose of the homework is clearly stated. I used to literally type the purpose of the homework at the top of the page in simple language, for example: "This paper will help you know when to use 'everyday' as one word and when to make it two words, like 'every day'. You won't be embarrassed when you send an email and you will have fun finding errors on signs." If I had a lot of Spanish-speakers, I had it translated into Spanish.

2. Make sure the homework is short.

3. Type "hints" about good homework and study habits at the bottom of everything you hand out. For example, "Make homework take less time tonight! Do five math problems before dinner and five after dinner before leaving the table. Yay! You're done!"

4. Start a homework buddies club, where each partner checks with the other to make sure they've done their homework and helped one another. Even add a "group problem" to each assignment that requires collaboration.

5. Make it clear that aside from giving their kids a place to work, you don't expect parents to be involved in homework. And give homework that truly doesn't require adult input.

How to Make Kids Literate in 256 Hours
1. Involve your principal. Far too many principals and administrators excuse their lack of leadership with statements like, "These parents don't care about secular education." It may or may not be true for at least some parents, but it's still an excuse. You can most definitely have kids' basic skills at or above grade level with two hours of instruction per day.

The principal needs to research schools that are doing a good job in secular education within the same limitations. I would contact Tiferes Bnos in Brooklyn as well as Rabbi Hillel Mandel, sh"lita, in Chicago. I'm sure there are other schools that I'm simply unaware of -- as Groisamomma said, Torah U'Mesorah will be very helpful in working with the principal to develop a curriculum that works.

2. Try to locate and access programmed instruction materials whenever possible. Depending on the subject, I have always found this to be the best way for students to gain mastery skills. The best part about it is that it works even if they cheat!

3. Keep up the reminders about how a particular skill will help students now and in the future. Make the reminders as specific as possible based on the kids' knowledge and environment. For example, introduce percentages by saying, "I'm going to teach you how to figure out if you have enough money for candy or a toy if there's sales tax. Once you learn this, you can use it to figure out whether an investment is good when you're a big businessman."

Obviously, these suggestions are simply examples. Some will work, and some won't. But do yourself and your students a favor: find things, however minor, to like and respect about their families and community. If you don't, you'll not only find it difficult to reach the students or their parents, you'll make yourself miserable for the few hours each day you spend with them.

Thank you so much! This is exactly what I was looking for. Although I may not agree with everything they say, I don't hold the parents in contempt. That attitude came across as a response to certain posters.

mummiedearest

Wed, Jan 20 2016, 12:50 pm

amother wrote:

Ok, let's let the defective anology stand.

The child getting a 14 did hand in blank papers. I then insisted on a name on it. Then I insisted on work. I offered a prize and that child got a 100 then slacked off again. I then told the child I will make the child go sit in a classroom several grades behind because every child in my class must work. That child is now getting As. Dyslexia is not cured by by snacks or threats to get put back a couple of grades. I tried talking to the parents first, and it was like having a conversation with you. They claimed they were raising a healthy well rounded child. shock

You missed the part about prizes working. The problem is the marginal value of the prizes decrease. The students have the abilities.

I see. so because incentives work temporarily, the kid doesn't have an issue? go back to school. you are WRONG. children who can't stay motivated with incentives offered generally DO have learning issues. succeeding temporarily does not mean they're capable of doing so continuously. motivation should not be prize based. you're using the carrot/stick method, and that's not a way to show you care, that's a way of trying to control a kid. it's actually quite cruel to those who have learning difficulties. basically, you're sweet-talking them into putting in a ton of effort (way more than you realize, it's utterly exhausting to the poor kid). then, when they have succeeded once and decided that the feeling of success plus a dinky prize isn't enough to make the emotional effort worth it, you threaten to send them to the "baby class" because you consider this one lazy and not worthy of your class. you're one sick lady. you don't bother to find out why this kid can't function in your class, don't bother discussing it with the principal or an expert in the field. no, you try to bribe the kid to be normal, and if not, it's out of your class. your class is only for normal kids who can absorb what you throw at them. and if the kid has an undiagnosed learning disability, the parents are at blame for not encouraging the kid enough. get out of education and go into politics. no one needs your attitude in education.

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, Jan 20 2016, 2:20 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

Why do you continue to make stupid assumptions? How do you know who I did or didn't speak with before I took my approach? A child not performing at all is going to be demoralized for life. This child was extremely proud of the 14. The first 100 took three hours total to achieve including 120 minutes of class time under my supervision. The last As were because I expect this child to work the same as the other children. This child was shown they have the ability. If you could see the difference in how this child presents now verses before, you might admit you don't know everything.

Fox

Wed, Jan 20 2016, 2:30 pm

Simple1 wrote:

I really love what Pink Fridge said on the first page - think of the big picture. You don't have to literally be reaching every kid now. But with a warm, caring, accepting, you will be a good influence in their lives.

This is so true!

People in my family have been teachers at various levels for four generations, and my mother passed on a bit of wisdom that I think is crucial for every teacher to remember: if you want to see results, be a carpenter.

It's gratifying to see kids mastering material at the time, but remember that you'll never be around to see your most stunning successes. The handful of times that you have the zchus of seeing or getting credit for a former student's success will be more emotionally riveting than your wedding day or the birth of your children, and your eyes will tear up when you recall the incident when you're 90.

A few years ago, I was pawing through the sale racks at a large discount store, when a woman said, "Excuse me, are you Mrs. Fox?" I said yes, and she said, "You probably don't remember me, but I was your student. You taught me Career Development." I rummaged through my brain and got it (mostly) right. She told me that she was the store manager, and pulled out a walkie-talkie to summon all the employees in the store, leaving only one cashier in place.

She pointed to me as if I were a prize-winning salmon, and I half-expected her to snatch me up by the scruff of my neck so as to better display me amongst the offerings of 2X skirts and tops. She told her staff, "This is the Mrs. Fox I'm always talking about," and repeated a long list of things I'd allegedly said that she felt had contributed to her success and that her employees should emulate.

She reminded me of her story. She hadn't been the best student; she was a barely adequate student, and her motivation and attendance had wavered. She had dropped out of school, pregnant, at 16 or so, and had struggled to complete a GED. Her parents were from Mexico, illegal, and spoke no English. Her father took whatever jobs he could, traveling to California to harvest vegetables and coming back to do landscaping during summer months. Her mom did domestic work when she could find it. They lived with so many other people in a house owned by a cousin that I can't imagine there was even room to do homework, let alone anywhere quiet.

I hadn't had a special kesher with this woman. I was still a kid myself when I taught her -- probably no more than 25 or 26. And I didn't do anything for her that I didn't do for hundreds of students. But that's what teaching is like. You never know who you're going to reach, when you will reach them, or how they'll apply what you've taught. A carpenter can see his/her work at the end of the day. All the standardized testing aside, teachers only get small, occasional glimpses of their success.

mummiedearest

Wed, Jan 20 2016, 2:30 pm

amother wrote:

I don't make stupid assumptions. I have experience in these matters, as the student, the teacher and the parent. I care about my kids' emotional well-being, and I make sure to recognize their areas of strength and weakness. you're not even trying to see the situation from your student's point of view. let me spell it out for you:

the child was PROUD of a 14. that should tell you something about her belief in her own abilities. you worked her for three hours to get her to a 100. why did you not do one of the following: modify the test, encourage a 50 and cheer her on for it, find out her interests and teach her in a way more suited to her brain? (for example, some kids learn things better while moving. having the kids jump rope while discussing a topic would have been fun for the whole class and helpful for a kid like that.) why did you feel the need to prove to her that she was capable of the 100? do you understand how demoralizing it is to know that you have to spend three hours on a test when the rest of the class doesn't? do you know how terrible it is to feel that the teacher will accept nothing but perfection from you when you can't make heads or tails of her subject on your own? you made your point about what you think her potential is. I got speeches every year about potential. you're not teaching the child's potential. you're teaching her current self, with her current set of abilities. you cannot penalize your students for your lack of knowledge. what you see as a success may very well be torture to your students. I repeat, go back to school. there are so many ways to help kids like that these days. your way of thinking is too risky.

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, Jan 20 2016, 6:06 pm

Simple1 wrote:

I don't understand how you can say many frum kids are growing up illiterate (I.e. can't read and write). As was mentioned, even a flunking kid who never does homework ends up knowing how to read. Why do they need to rattle off lists of historical events to be considered literate?

And on the other end, many many girls continue their education whether it's getting degrees, or maybe the more "frum-minded" going to very academic seminaries.

I am in agreement with you that people don't need to be able to rattle off dates of historical events to be literate. They do need to be literate to communicate in our society. As I mentioned, Fox wrote an excellent post on why it is so important to be able to read and write in our society. She could better explain this to you.

Regrettably, many frum people can not write at a fourth grade level. Why do you think those lawsuits against the frum schools exist? They exist because the plaintiffs think it is wrong that they are functionally illiterate. No one is suing because they can't rattle off dates.

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, Jan 20 2016, 6:29 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

Yes, you continually make stupid assumptions. I think you are having a reaction formation because you (or someone you are class to) are learning disabled and are angry at your teachers and projecting that anger on me.

Every child was given 120 minutes in class to learn the material for that test. That some children routinely put in an hour study time for their weekly exam is totally normal. Generally those children are the ones with supportive parents who don't use toddlers as their excuse. The child who decided to learn put in the same amount of time as others did who did well. It is only your own stupid assumption that has me demanding a 100. I would have been happy with a 30. The exact words I said was to "try to do something for me." I gave a big smile of encouragement.

The student population at the school I teach at is statistically within the normal range for LD students. I asked that two children be evaluated for LD and two for OT. Others had been identified by their prior teachers.

It is deeply defective to keep looking to project dyslexia across a population. Sometimes the educator can identify the cause of a child's issues and sometimes it is a lack of support at home.

I repeat your logic is deeply flawed, and you make the stupist crazy assumptions I have ever read on this site.

amother

Mistyrose

Wed, Jan 20 2016, 10:15 pm

Fascinating discussion. I know a middle school locally (hence anonymous) that promotes not being educated. It isn't just the parents who refuse to get kids evaluated for LD/even ask if they did homework. It's also the administration who give zero time/money to secular studies, who do not let a kid get less than a C even when they didn't turn in any assignments or show up for the exam (a teacher said she had to redo the report cards because she failed a few students and this is not allowed. The kids know it too so "why try if I will pass anyways?"). It's also the teachers who don't put in any effort. They know the "policy" after a year there and just go through the motions. They don't even try to inspire kids to do better, to give them a reason to learn better.

The problem is systemic. But systems theory states that if you change one part, you can change everything. So as a parent, you can try to get your kid willing to try. Give a quiet space to do work. Take them to a museum or science center etc. As a teacher, you can inspire your kids and give them a motive (you need to know per cents for knowing sale prices, tell a story how knowing that history fact helped you land a job, or make whatever subject you teach relevant and practical).

mummiedearest

Thu, Jan 21 2016, 1:41 am

amother wrote:

my dear, I bring up dyslexia as an example, not as a problem inflicted on the entire population. my assumptions are based on things you have said, including not caring about how a child functions beyond your classroom. I really think you may need some help with reading comprehension and spelling, btw. just saying. "stupist" is not a word. I'm impressed that I can make something that doesn't exist. can I use that in real life? thanks.

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Jan 21 2016, 7:01 am

mummiedearest wrote:

You are demented. Obviously with your emotions, about your own frustrations with education, clouding your thought process, you are not thinking clearly. No, you can not continue to make false premises and use that in real life. It will frustrate those around you.

With the dyslexia, the toddler, and the ruined sheital statements I was using a common argument technique known as argumentum ad absurdum to show your statement is false because absurd results come from its acceptance.

Pardon my typo. As I tell my classes, teachers aren't perfect, and we make mistakes. The wrong is not being willing to learn from them. I will answer your latest stupid allegation about my reading comprehension and spelling. I got perfect scores on my boards which made me a member of Mensa and enabled me to be able to attend university on a scholarship. Objectively speaking, my reading comprehension is fine.

BTW, this thread was about the students. You choose to personalize it and call me names.

mummiedearest

Thu, Jan 21 2016, 8:09 am

amother wrote:

no, this thread was about you and your crusade for the purpose of your own feelings of accomplishment. as for name calling, "kugel parents."

you did not accomplish your goal of argumentum ad absurdum. you did not show my statement to be false, because you did not understand the purpose of my statement. the purpose of my statement was never to tell you that an entire population suffers from the above situations. my purpose was to inform you that there are logical explanations available for your student's illiteracy, and that blaming the parents is absurd, bad middos, futile, unprofessional, and generally a bad idea. absurd is the statement that parental apathy causes illiteracy. it is not absurd to think that some people might be distracted by something as simple as a ruined sheitel. ruined sheitel falls under financial woes. it is not absurd to think that a toddler can disrupt homework time by demanding attention, ripping the homework, coloring on it, even torturing the family pet. your refusal to understand reality is really sad.

I really don't see how mensa membership has anything to do with the ability to empathize and/or teach. you clearly lack empathy in your insistence to cling to your own narrow perception of reality. you have proven to lack reading comprehension ability in your responses to people on this thread. and regardless of your iq, you seem to lack knowledge in education. so I urge you to go for further education. stop insisting that parents are crippling their kids. next you'll be saying we should need licenses to reproduce.