English Names | Imamother

He*Sings*To*Me

Wed, Aug 12 2009, 2:51 pm

Each of our five children have what we refer to as their "secular name", and have their Jewish names. We give a first and middle name for both Jewish names and secular names. We would've given them Jewish names on the birth certificates, but for the same reasons someone above previously posted, we didn't want their Jewish ethnicity readily identifiable, for their protection.
Someone above had mentioned that we Jews seem to be the ones with a problem when it comes to using our Jewish names in the secular world. I agree, but there's a reason some of us do what we do. It is visibly evident that Black Muslims, African-Americans, Asian folks, Native Americans and the like are "ethnic", whether their names reflect their origins or not. With we Jews, not all of us "look" Jewish, necessarily, and some of us could and have passed as Italian, Greek, etc. and other origins that white supremists have no wish to "cleanse" the world of those groups the way they do us.
I always envied the Jews who grew up in places like Crown Heights (just to name one place), who could go days without coming face-to-face with the non jews. I grew up in a place where it was a rare treat to come face-to-face with another Jew, outside of the couple of Jewish families who you were tired of seeing! I grew up knowing about how alive and active white supremists groups really are because I lived where they were active and ended up moving to a different state where they actually rally openly! Don't be naive and sheltered enough to believe that another Holocaust could never happen...
On a lighter note...I've alot of chutzpah when it comes to standing up to dh's family (mine are much more laid back and don't need "standing up to") and told a number of members individually---because we all know how family talks amongst themselves---knowing it would be a topic of discussion when our first's birth was a few weeks away that the baby was OURS to name and that any suggestion made would automatically disqualify that name from our consideration! It worked like a charm!

youngbubby

Wed, Aug 12 2009, 3:04 pm

I guess Im fron another generation..I was young once and having babies..when we had our first baby I asked my parents and my husbands parents for a list of their family members that have passed away. We still have the list. My parents knew that the name we give is our choice in the end but I dont think I would ever have said if u mention a name for sure I wont use it. Like what is wrong with knowing how she feels and what her opnion is like that is ok as long as she knows I may not use or take her advice..Not to sound old but along time ago my parents and grandparents had to name their bebies and they probly went through the same emotions its my baby Ill name it not you.....but I guess there is a nicer way to deal with it/

He*Sings*To*Me

Wed, Aug 12 2009, 3:44 pm

DH was in his early-mid forties and I was in my early-mid thirties when we met and married. Both career-oriented, trying to become more observant, and heading in the same direction when we met. We were both from non-frum families. His is a very high-strung, loud, intense, intrusive lot who enjoyed a fair amount of economic success and weren't afraid to flaunt it. I grew up financially comfortable, as well, just discreet about it, and mine are polar opposites of his family. MY family ASKS, His family TELLS. My familly OFFERS, his family DEMANDS.
We dated quietly for close to a year before his family ever knew he was seeing anyone(concentrating on the business is a good excuse for seeming distracted!)...we headed out-of-town to my folks four hours away and he was a frequent welcomed guest amongst my friends and family before his people even had an inkling of me. He told me prior to my being introduced to his family to brace myself and was very nervous that I would reconsider marrying him once I saw what I "was getting into"!
They circled me like hyenas, and grilled me like the Inquisition, and I passed muster. My dh told me once we were married, though, they'd butt into our business and create drama and tzurris where it didn't exist if I didn't establish up front that they would not be allowed to do that. So, as situations would arise, I would very politely and firmly put my foot down and establish the boundary then and there. They didn't like it, but they learned quickly I was not a push over or likely to be intimidated, as they had some of the younger brides who'd married into the family.
They didn't expect to have to wait to be told the babies' names until the namings, they didn't think that our kashrut would be as strict as it was, and they couldn't understand why shomer negiah was important, and his male relatives would try to sneak a peck to my cheek on the way out the door catching me offguard.
So, had I not established we would be naming our child what WE chose, our phones both at home and in our offices would've been buzzing with someone in his family putting in their two-cents worth, and neither of us could've allowed that. I had every intention of naming our first-born for his maternal grandparents. As it turned out, his grandmother's name Rochel, is what we named our DD#1. My MIL was beside herself! After that, she learnt to both trust and respect me, and our interactions were much less awkward.

Rubber Ducky

Wed, Aug 12 2009, 4:22 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Quote:

I doubt that in the shtetl people had Polish or German names.

My great-great grandmother, born in Poland in the 1860's and lived her entire life there, was known both as Annabelle and Chana Bas'l. She was very frum.

We gave our sons only Hebrew names. We're from the school of using unusual/unique names, and really, in many American circles nowadays, anything goes. We were good about spelling their names phonetically. At doctors/dentists etc our younger son's name has caused a few raised eyebrows because people assume the name Shemarya should belong to a black girl. We kid him about changing his name to something people will recognize, like Samurai or Mario, but he's already 20 and has never shown any inclination to adopt a nickname.

He*Sings*To*Me

Wed, Aug 12 2009, 4:47 pm

In English, my great-grandmother was Hannah, but in Hebrew was Chana...
I was told that in the late1800's-early 1900's, that "coming over here to America was a dream come true" and the desire was to assimilate and become the best Americans that they could be. Giving "American" names to their children was a trendy thing to do amongst our people, as it was considered a gift and a way of helping their babies to "fit in" as they grew alongside the rest of their new, American neighbors. These immigrants had come from places where your name negatively marked you for prejudice and persecution, so their mentality was/is understandable.

Therefore, there were all the Maurice/Morris boys whose Hebrew names were Moishe/Moshe and girls named Helen/Hannah/Constance/Connie who were Chana in Hebrew.

realeez

Wed, Aug 12 2009, 7:30 pm

He*Sings*To*Me wrote:

There were many people who had their names changed when they came over to America by the government. Ever watch "An American Tail" about the little mouse Feivel who becomes IIRC Phillip? Some of my relatives who came over late 50s remember having their name changed to an Americanized version with no thought other than possibly using the same first letter. My father's name is a "Ch" name and the border officer said "Ch-________" (sounding like cheese) but when my grandmother corrected him that it's like "Kh" he said, "Okay, H-for H__________" and that's how my father got his English name. He could just as easily been "Charlie."

amother

Wed, Aug 12 2009, 9:57 pm

My children have legal names that are English for the same reason that we always keep current passports. Security. It has nothing to do with identity, it isn't about who they are, it's a safety mechanism. They can use it on their resumes when looking for work, or an application for government who knows what. They don't have to worry about someone making an assumption about them based on their name.

When people look at job applicants and one's name is Kineshwa Jackson, you don't think they know (or suspect) the person is black? Why should I foist other people's prejudices on my children?

Plus, you just never know.

youngbubby

Thu, Aug 13 2009, 8:24 am

We have to stand proud of who we are and not hide because our name says we are Jewish. I work in the "real" world...I would never think of compromising my tznius...when it is 90 degress outside and very very hot im my classroom I wouldnt think of comming to teach in a sleveless dress because all the other teachers do and by me dressing in long sleves and a skirt and stockings makes people see that I am Jewish and religious. That is ok...I am different I am Jewish.......Just like the black people who give their kids Afracain names they stand out because of the name they have and the color of their skin. THey are proud of who they are and we have to be proud ofwho we are.

mominisrael2

Thu, Aug 13 2009, 11:36 am

Despite the fact that DH and I both only have Hebrew names, when it came time to name our own kids they got both English and Hebrew names, and called them by their English names because aliyah was so far off our radar at the time...now that we are in Israel, things got confusing REALLY fast, partially due to the fact that our TZs use the Hebrew transliteration of the kids' English names, so when they started school nobody was sure what to call them! These days their Anglo friends call them by their English names and their Israeli-born friends call them by their Hebrew names, but DD1's school has her in their official records with her English name but in the classroom her teachers and classmates call her by her Hebrew name, so when we go in to talk to them we never know if they are going to know who we are talking about! And for us and everyone else who knew them in the old country, old habits die hard and we still end up calling them by their English names because it's ingrained in our brains...

DS-to-be is definitely getting only a Hebrew name!!...way simpler.

mominisrael2

Thu, Aug 13 2009, 12:10 pm

youngbubby wrote:

SOmething very interesting is said in all these posts about english names or jewish names....I teach in a public school . almost all of my kids are black with a few muslim. I dont have any black children by the name of steven or charlie or david ..... most of the black children have african American names and the Muslim kids have muslim names , like this is who they are and they are proud. Its the Jews who always wonder to use thier Jewish name or not. We should be proud of our Jewish names like the people of different ethnic heratige are...I once went to a freinds colledge graduation...THe blacks went up when they were called...al by their real african names the muslems or whatever theuy were came up dressed with the scarfs and their names..like mohamed ect and my Jewish frum friend lets say her name is chanie..she had them call her up as Karen...there is something wrong with this...

I also think that's an interesting observation...if you go down the class lists from my kids' schools it's very easy to pick out which classmates are Ethiopian just by looking at the names...

mominisrael2

Thu, Aug 13 2009, 12:26 pm

Mommish wrote:

There is also the issue naming a Hebrew or Yiddish name after someone who went by only their English name their whole life. Are you truly naming for that person if you call the child by a name they only used a few times in their whole life?

Good point, but is it better to "name after" giving the child the relative's English name since that's what they used, or to use said relative's Hebrew/Yiddish name anyway since it's obviously in their memory?

For DD2 and DS-to-be we are using/used Hebrew names based on relatives' English names (relative in question for DD2 used both her English and Hebrew names, but her Hebrew name was the same as mine so instead we gave her a Hebrew name which meant the same as relative's English name, and relative in question for DS-to-be used her English name but it's the wrong gender anyway, so we're using the male version of her Hebrew name)...DD1 was easier since relative in question used her Yiddish name in America and her Hebrew name in Israel and was known equally by both, so DD and her same-age cousin each took one.

youngbubby

Thu, Aug 13 2009, 12:37 pm

I think our way of naming after passed away relatives is beautiful.. Its ok if the name is different..as long as u and your husband like the name then that should be it. wierd u say different oh well other nationalities think different is beautiful...like nothing wrong with it...so why so worried????The first time I heard the name Jeremy I thought wow that is strange or one of my friends named her kid megan..wow I never heard of that name 20 years ao or alley but now those names are common but my friend was not afraid to give her daughters different names..like it was a joke between us she is doing like me ....different names just her names are not jsewish names...so thre once again I think we have to be proud of our jewish names.

Ruchel

Thu, Aug 13 2009, 12:38 pm

mominisrael2 wrote:

Mommish wrote:

Question for a rav... mine says the Jwish name.