Awkward Guest Experience- need validation

amother

Tue, May 11 2010, 7:29 pm

Thanks everyone for your replies. While I found many encouraging and validating, I am disappointed how some posters went to the extreme in judging my unwelcoming hosts so favorably, while quickly condemning my expectations and behavior. Especially when I clearly stated in the title that I needed validation. I guess a little clarification is needed on some questions you had and I am more than happy to explain.

Firstly, our hosts were asked at the beginning of the week to host us, and there were other families that could have done it. They were not forced into it and it was not a last minute arrangement. This was not a simcha of someone we HAD to come to. If there would have been no one to host us, I would have stayed home without feeling bad. It was optional to go.

Secondly, it was clearly communicated between our hosts and the person who set us up that we would be eating out the first two meals however we would be over by them in the morning (no going to shul with youg children), staying by them in the afternoon and eating seudat shlishit by them. They were well aware of these details way before shabbat.

Thirdly, I am a very considerate person. I cleaned up after my own children. I cleaned up after the host's children. I cleared the table. I brought an elaborate, beautiful hostess gift that cost almost as much as it does for me to make shabbat. I was very appreciative, expressive and complimentary about the accommodations and how cute the children were, etc. I stripped all the beds of their linens after our stay and just short of washed them myself. I would have if I would've known where the washing machine was. I definitely did not ask for a babysitter nor had any other preposterous expectations. I can't believe anyone would even conjure up such a notion.

I host often. I know what it is. I regret putting in examples that some of you took as a personal offense to not being good hostesses yourselves. Please take them out of your head. I was just very bothered by my experience and put in as many details in order to paint as clear of a picture as possible. I would never feel unwelcome if someone didn't help me with my luggage alone but behaved like a mentsch in general. These were people who did not.

I don't need anyone to do me any favors begrudgingly, and I'm sure most of you would feel that way. If you are not desperate for something, then you would not want it if it were delivered to you in a begrudging, undignified manner. That is how I was made to feel. I did not take it personally, to the poster who assumed I was from OOT. I just had a rotten experience and was venting about it.

Israeli Mother

Wed, May 12 2010, 6:02 am

I agree with many others here who have said that everyone is just not taught how to be a great host. I also agree that there is a big difference between someone who personally invited you themselves to visit and someone who was asked by a ba'al simcha to host a family. Usually the latter are not expected to provide food or toys; the only thing expected is a place to sleep.

By the way, you all shouldn't get the wrong idea. Yesha is a wonderful hostess -- makes great salads, too...

Isramom8

Wed, May 12 2010, 6:22 am

Both cases sound to me like misunderstandings, where the guests of the baalei simcha thought that the surrogate hosts would provide services that they actually never realized were expected of them. Like maybe the parents of the baby were told that everything will be taken care of, or that hey can work things out, and they were hapy to assume they could leave their baby home with the lady who wasn't going out anyway.

Sometimes my guests need more than I thought they would, and of course I just accommodate them with as much of a real smile as I can manage. The situation is what it is, and they will go home eventually - meanwhile it's an unexpected opportunity for chessed, even if I'm not in the mood.

I find that in Israel people expect to be pretty self sufficient - they don't expect showers, an elaborate shalosh seudos or even necessarily linen provided. They do want hot water though, and really have to remind myself to have it (till recently I was scared to use an urn but now my baby is a child although I'm still not crazy about it).

amother

Wed, May 12 2010, 6:22 am

amother wrote:

My husband said that these people probably had poor upbringing and did not realize how to make one feel comfortable, but they are of higher social breeding, both being from well off. Some things however were outright hard to understand.

I got a good chuckle out of this. I think that my upbringing qualified by anyone's standards as "higher social breeding" and generally those in the circles I was brought up in did not stay by other people; they were able to take care of what they needed without needing anyone's chesed or a place to stay. When we went somewhere we were expected to bring sufficient toys for the kids along and whatever else we needed. Actually, what I have found is that the wealthier the area the more people expect you to be a bit self-sufficient.

I think that what happened here was probably either a misunderstanding between the ba'alei simcha and your hosts or a cultural difference in terms of whether guests ask for what they need or they are offered things in advance or both.

I guess that due to my upbringing, I feel that people who offer us a place to sleep when we visit for a simcha, but no toys, no food, and no major conversation are still doing me a great chesed and I am very happy with their hospitality. It's not easy to have strangers sleep in your home and you don't always know what to say to people that you don't know well and when you know that someone is in the area for a simcha that someone else is making.

Isramom8

Wed, May 12 2010, 6:34 am

Expectations...I once hired a woman to cater a bas mitzvah at my home. Beforehand I spent hours cleaning the house and arranging for my younger kids to be out. She arrived late, with her kids! saying, "I'm sure you have toys and a room where they can play." Twisted Evil

And on my daughter's wedding day, the makeup assisatnt brought her baby - I spent some time watching him and also giving the mom nursing advice, she was desperate... and my kids' hamster got loose and I had to chase him just hours before becoming a mother in law, but that's another story...

mominlkwd

Wed, May 12 2010, 7:58 am

jewels

. That's what I did when I had a guest room. Than my DD took over and I found cotton balls all over her floor so we gave that up but we are putting in a guest room suite now and we are definitely putting all possible necessities into the bathroom so they don't have to ask for anything.

I still don't think that I need to be a doorman or babysitter for my neighbors guests though. Unless specifically asked I would assume they needed a place to stay and that's all. When I went to a stranger for Shabbos once I brought them a gift and said thank you and tried not to bother them again. My DH went back to them to nap on shabbos afternoon but I stayed with the kids at our real hosts so as not to bother them with my kids. I would never ask them for food for my kids although if they offered I would possibly take them up on it but Shabbos morning we got dressed and walked a few doors down for breakfast at our hosts who had set up a table with cake and cereal for everyone so while I do think they were rude I think they were probably more uncomfortable with the situation and I think if they had had some warning they would have been better prepared and not so rude.

that being said it could be that what your hosts assumed was a clear understanding of what they were offering ie serving you breakfast and having your for shalos seuda wasn't what they understood it to be. It could also be that they are the type of people who are happy to do a favor for a friend but don't really know HOW to do it and get uncomfortable with strangers in their house. Or it could be that that's how they always are. I have a neighbor who would totally do what you described and would think you were crazy if you kept asking "can I take some...", " do you mind if my kids play with ..." she would wonder why you keep asking and she also doesn't have a great handle on her kids so she would probably say something about giving her kid back her toy only so that she wouldn't have to hear her cry for an hour. That doesn't mean she isn't happy to host just that she doesn't want to drive herself crazy so everyone knows you just make yourself at home - if you don't know her than you would probably think she was the rudest hostess ever but she is really one of the most giving people I've ever met.

Also don't take this as judgment. I just want to give other sides so maybe you will realize it wasn't on purpose and won't be hurt by it. I am not at all trying to invalidate your feelings which you are totally entitled to and I would probably feel the same way but just realize maybe she's a bit unaware and would be totally shocked to know you didn't enjoy your stay.