do you get kitchen help when you have guests

amother

Sun, Jun 06 2010, 8:00 pm

Well of course I have a dishwasher but some items like wineglasses don't go in 'cuz they shatter so easily and silverwear gets stained 'cuz I can't soak them till motzei shabbes. And if we have more than 8 guests I need to wash dishes otherwise we won't have enough serving sets for lunch.

Yeah the other op, that's exactly why I wannt have someone to clean while we're still having desserts or bentching so I don't have to stay up till 1am cleaning up. So the consensus here seems to be not many people gets kitchen help--is it because of $ or just not done or 'cuz people use disposables? I think disposables, the nice ones, come out more expensive if you keep on buying and throwing them away for every shabbes meals?

yummymummy

Sun, Jun 06 2010, 8:28 pm

The cost would depend on how many people you need to buy disposables for and how fancy the disposables you get are vs. how many hours you need the cleaning help for. Could go either way.

I personally wash all of my fine china, stemware and flatware by hand but I would not force anyone else to be a martyr like me Wink

which is why I was so insistent that OP should use a dishwasher. I can completely understand why someone would not want to spend all night scrubing dishes although I don't mind.

What about help serving the meal, though? Do other people really find that so time consuming that they need extra help for that as well?

ra_mom

Sun, Jun 06 2010, 8:39 pm

OP, just a tip that I learned from a relative, to make Friday night dish washing easier.
Before Shabbos fill your largest pot with water, cook up, then add soap, and cover tightly.
Have your guests help you clear off the plates from the table after each coarse and scrape the remnants into the garbage. Then dip each dish into the warm/hot soapy water and clean. Finally rinse your entire stack of soapy dishes with cold water (while wearing gloves so as not to get your hands too cold.)
It takes pretty quick and is not as labor intensive this way.
(Also, the sooner you wash off the residue from the plates, the quicker and easier it is to wash each dish.)

Fox

Sun, Jun 06 2010, 8:42 pm

I hired someone to help in the kitchen for the Friday night seuda for my son's bar mitzvah, and it was great. I actually think it's a very smart idea, and one that should at least be considered in allocating resources available for household help. Some people might find it more helpful to have the assistance on Shabbos than have the tidying-up kind of cleaning lady during the week.

That said, it is a complicated matter to hire a non-Jew to do work on Shabbos or Yom Tov, and you should definitely consult a rav to find out how to structure the compensation.

de_goldy

Sun, Jun 06 2010, 8:59 pm

I know many (not particularly wealthy) people who have someone on shabbos morning to wash up from friday night, maybe help cut up a salad, and if she's still there in the afternoon to wash the dishes as they're finished with.

Then again, most people I know are serving 20+ most friday nights and often need to wash forks between courses, and definitely plates and cutlery need to be washed for the next day, not to mention all the serving dishes. Eg. If I serve salmon, gefilte fish, 4 salads, 3 dips for fri night and plan on serving the same shabbos day - all those dishes need to be washed for shabbos day, and a dishwasher doesn't help in that case.

Like fox said above, the halachos of having a non-jew working for you on shabbos are much more complex and strict than many people are aware, so do be sure to look into that if you do go ahead and hire someone.

chocolate moose

Sun, Jun 06 2010, 9:43 pm

amother wrote:

I have a sister who hosts 40+ EVERY FRIDAY NIGHT!! She doesn't have a dishwasher or hired help. She may not use dishes, but trust me, the pots, pans, serving pieces, pitchers, etc add up to a few hrs of washing up on a friday night

And that's nothing compared to other people I know who serve over 100 ppl weekly (although I'm sure they have help)

Do these ppl run a Chabad House? I work full time with a commute; I just have enough time to do my cooking, much less dozens of ppl. That doesn't interest me one bit!

rowo

Sun, Jun 06 2010, 11:47 pm

I've had people come to help. when I've made sheva brachos or hosted alot of people (like 80).
even if it has been on disposable, they help with putting everything on platters, clearing the table, bringing things to the table, drinks, and most importantly cleaning up. there is alot to do!
I have two little kids who keep me busy enough. preparing a meal and organising and setting up for so many people is quite exhausting (I find), by the time the meal comes I'm almost wiped out already, so it really makes a difference to have someone helping out and have a clean kitchen at the end of it. plus it enables you to be a bit social as well.
it shouldn't be too hard to find someone, if you have a cleaner, maybe ask them if they are available for a few hours, or call an agency.

Tablepoetry

Mon, Jun 07 2010, 12:06 am

For a regular Shabbat, it's really not done where I live. I always serve family style (big platters in the middle). I also don't use so many plates. In fact, guests only get one large plate for salads and main course, unless there is also fish (or soup, of course). Guests often help clear, scraping into one main plate. My husband also helps serve. It's true he's in charge of dvar torah, but he's not giving it when I'm serving anyway.

I think there are many different entertaining styles and you seem to be from a background where it's done more formally. Our answers, therefore, are kind of irrelevant to you. Here the husband helps, the guests help, some people use nice disposable plates, most people don't have fine silverware or crystal dishes that need to be washed by hand. Totally different situation.

Anyway, my motto is keep it simple. I definitely do not spend most of the time serving or clearing. And I think I entertain quite nicely. The table is nice and colourful, I don't cover the tablecloth with that plastic cover so many frum people seem to love, there is plenty of food and drink. It's a help yourself kind of style.
I think I spend the most time clearing after the main course, before desert. With so many little kids around, the table is usally a real mess, and I often actually change the whole tablecloth. Well, I did say we were not formal around here.

I will admit people here do hire help for larger occasions - sheva brachot, shabbat chatan, etc (I've actually hosted all these with only cleaning - not serving - help. The secret is having extended family which helps set and serve).

Tablepoetry

Mon, Jun 07 2010, 1:15 am

amother wrote:

Yeah the other op, that's exactly why I wannt have someone to clean while we're still having desserts or bentching so I don't have to stay up till 1am cleaning up. So the consensus here seems to be not many people gets kitchen help--is it because of $ or just not done or 'cuz people use disposables? I think disposables, the nice ones, come out more expensive if you keep on buying and throwing them away for every shabbes meals?

Money, money, money. Most people don't have kitchen help on their radar because it's just totally not affordable for them.
I don't need help serving, but I would LOVE to hire someone to come after every Shabbat meal and make the dining area and kitchen spotless. But I can't afford it. Availability is also a factor - I can't think of many women around my area who would be willing to come in for only 2 hrs of work (which is the maximum it would take, if you include mopping the area).
If you can afford it, why not? I would in a heartbeat.

As for disposables - maybe if you buy the very, very fancy ones they come out to the same amount as 2 hrs of cleaning help. Say, in Israel, 2 hrs cleaning help is 2 x 40 = 80 NIS. Yeah, actually, a meal of fancy disposable plates and nicer napkins for 20 people would cost more. You do have a point. Then again, in Israel the water it would cost to wash plates for 20 people is also a factor.....

Marion

Mon, Jun 07 2010, 1:19 am

No, I don't have help in the kitchen (DH will help clear & scrape). And no, I don't have a dishwasher. The Friday night dishes (and whatever pots are already in the sink) get washed Shabbat morning and used again at lunch (as per my Rav's psak). The lunch dishes get washed after Shabbat, but at least they sit in the sink and not on the counter. Disposable is against my principles, unless I have more guests than dishes (I have service for 12 adults and 4 kids for fleishigs and up to 20 for milchigs, so I don't usually run out).

Mrs Bissli

Mon, Jun 07 2010, 12:43 pm

If you can afford it and can find someone and make an arrangement beforehand about what she's supposed to do & the pay, why not? Does your synagogue have non-jewish ladies who help with the kiddush? We occasionally have someone help with serving food and cleaning when we have a large company on shabbat dinner, it's nice to see a clean kitchen when the guests leave so I see your point. We also serve main course and side dishes buffet style in our kitchen and invite the guests to help themselves. And if you cannot find someone else, why can't your DH help you after the guests leave? I understand if he doesn't want to leave the table during the meal, but he should pitch in cleanig up esp you can't count on guests or children to help? We just avoid a situation where both DH and I end up in the kitchen.