Looking for a community commuting distance from Manhattan

MommyZ

Thu, Nov 11 2010, 4:03 pm

amother wrote:

OP- just so you know I'm from Monsey (hence the anonymous) and tons of people here commute to the city. My father in law has been commuting for about 20 years to the city along with many of his friends and many friends he's made on the bus. Its a commute, but its very doable (prob about an hour or so door to door). If you are looking for a more yeshivish/yekke community, you'd probably fit in Monsey.
Also, since you mentioned you are looking for a "community" atmosphere, I would not recommend moving to Brklyn or Queens.
The Upper West Side is tons of singles, some married but its mostly very modern orthodox, and living expenses are astronomically high.
Washington Heights sounds like it could be for you in terms of community. But let me just tell you, I lived in Washington Heights and while there are definitley lots of nice people in the community, I just found the place so depressing. There is not a tree or a piece of grass in sight, its just rows and rows of cement and tall buildings, there was just something very depressing about it. Even in the upper west side (where I also spent some time living there), there's a little more in terms of parks, trees, etc... but something about the Heights just made me wanna run to a tree and give it a hug (and I'm a city girl at heart if that means something). Again, that's just my personal opinion, I liked the ppl there but I just couldn't imagine raising kids where there is barely anywhere to run around (except for that one big park, Fort Tryant? but that's pretty much it).
Good luck in ur search!

When I look out my window I see trees. There is a small park a short block away from my building and there are at least 8 other frum families in this building with children ranging from toddlers to young teenagers. More families keep moving in. I grew up in Monsey and don't feel any urge to go hug a tree. Many buildings on the Breuer's side have small play areas in the back of the building or on the side of the building. There is Bennett Park and there is also a large playground on the YU side.

amother

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 1:09 am

MommyZ wrote:

amother wrote:

TzipporahN wrote:

OP here again

A few questions:

I noted that nobody suggested Brooklyn or Queens - any reason for this? Also - Upper West Side?

I saw the 20-25 mins for Passaic commute - we went to the NJ Transit website and they were quoting about 40 minutes - and going to Penn Station - which is still 0.7miles walk to the office. Am I missing another commuting option for Passaic? Also are there any carpools etc? We are really tempted by Passaic, but are concerned by the time/hassle of the commute.

Washington Heights / Lower East Side - are these communities more modern or more yeshivish? Or how would you describe them?

1. Both Washington Heights and the LES are mixed. The Heights does have a large modern singles community (very YUish for the most part) but there is also the Breuers community, as many have said the yekkishe capital of the world. Some of the Heights Yekks moved up to riverdale, which is an easy commute but also very modern. The RW shul up that is really more of a RW YUish type. If you are yeshivish it will probably not be the right fit. The LES is mixed, you have young modern people btu you also definately have very frum people as well. Its nice to be part of a smaller community, there are schools down there and everyone lives pretty close. With that said, both the LES and the Heights are part of manhattan which means they are both going to be very expensive, whether you are renting or buying. What kind of a budget are you working with?

2. UWS- for the most part it is very modern. there are a couple of pockets of more RW families though I would def venture to say athey are not yeshivish... I think in the 70s but for the most part its pretty modern....and VERY pricey. You are definitely looking at a starting price of $1,000,000 for a decent (not fancy) 2 bedroom apartment (1100-1200 sqft max) or $3,750-$4,000 (starting) a month in rent for a 2 bedroom apartment.

3.If you look into passaic I would also check out clifton. Yes the commute from Passaic/clifton is probably 40 minutes. Don't worry about the 0.7 mile walk...there are all the subways at the train station. It will make it much quicker. There may be carpools...but remember there is heavy traffic too, so you may not save much time. Have you looked into other commutes? Unfortunately that's part of living in New York....long commutes. Whether you are coming from Brooklyn, NJ, long island, queens, you are looking at 30 minutes-1 hour for commuting at least.

4. Probably no reason that no one mentioned brooklyn, if you arent from there it can be a shock....that may e why...BUT if you live there, you cant imagine living anywhere else...also not really a yekkish type place...and expensive....

5. Queens - you can look into kew gardens and kew gardens hills. kew gardens is prettier and more families from what I know.

6. In long island you've got the 5 towns and far rockaway btu you are looking at an hour commute.

I think if you gave an idea of your price point people might be able to help you better. Homes in passaic/ clifton start around $500K or so (I might be off) where as in flatbush its more like starting between 600K and 700K for an attached house and there is a HUGE difference of what you get for the money. Marine Park is cute and has smaller homes but is also not walking distance to the subway, you have to take a bus to the subway which adds to yoru commute. himes there start around $400K or $450K (I THINK- been out of the gam a while!) usually they need work and are prob 1300 sqft or so.

I hope this was helpful...good luck!

I don't know what right wing shul you are referring to but there are several shuls on the YU side as well as several shuls on the Breuer's side ranging from a Chassidish shteibel to an Audah shul to Breuer's itself which is Yekki but has Yeshivish members to Mount Sinai which is MO. I'm not sure why you think that she won't fit in here because she's Yeshivish. There are quite a few yeshivish families who live here currently and they seem to feel quite comfortable here. Some of them daven at the Agudah shul and some of the daven at Breuer's. I can't deny the expense though. It is very expensive to live here but if we were living in the suburbs we'd need a second car whereas here we manage with one car and some people manage without a car at all.

sorry I realize maybe what I wrote wasnt so clear. re-read what I wrote in bold. I was referring to riverdale. though the YI is Rav Willig's shul and for sure the most RW YI I have ever been too. the YI community is a very nice community albeit a bit small.

TzipporahN

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 5:02 am

Wow! Thank you all so much for your feedback - you are absolutely amazing!

Just to clarify our hashkofah a bit - it isn't easy, but...

We are yekkes, as far as minhogim/mesorah goes. I don't know how today's yekkes hold - we don't have much exposure in the area we live now (my dh grew up in NY and went to Breuer's for school, but didn't live in Washington Heights). In terms of lifestyle, we keep cholov yisroel, but would watch TV selectively (although we're not going to have a TV in NY/NJ). My dh works, but sets aside time for learning every day. He will wear clothing other than black hat & suit, but would dress appropriately according to where we live. He's been living in OOT communities since he was 22. We're shomrei mitzvos - I cover my hair, etc. We are definitely much closer to yeshivish than to MO - we would not daven at an MO shul unless we absolutely had to, whereas we would be comfortable in a yeshivish shul. Religiously, politically, etc, we don't hold like MO. So it's really hard to "classify" us - we fall somewhere in no-man's land, but although we are technically yekkes, we in no way have to go to a yekkishe shul - they're obviously not that easy to find, and the overall community is more important to us.

BTW - please excuse my ignorance, but somebody mentioned TIDE - what is that?

Having said that, from all your comments, Passaic is definitely coming out as the winner - the only real question for us is the commute - we're so confused by all the options - Path, train, bus, jitney etc - we have to look into the cost and time more. It sounds like Washington Heights and LES are going to be too expensive and too small. We're going to be renting at first and, IY"H, later, buying, so we want to choose somewhere which is feasible for both. When we buy we would like to get our money's worth and not have to spend a large fortune to get something with a bit of space. (Not that we have a large fortune!) We really haven't figured out our budget yet - dh has to start the job and we have to do some calculations.

We've definitely been scared away from Brooklyn - don't know much about Queens, but I did hear that the problem there is that usually you don't live near public transport, so you need a car to get to the train - which makes things much more complicated.

Riverdale doesn't sound like it's for us, Monsey sounds much better, but the commute is just too much - especially on Fridays. It's one thing for someone who works for a frum company etc, but my dh has to minimize how early he has to leave for Shabbos, as much as possible - and that won't work for Monsey.

Moving from a small community, it's so amazing to us that there are so many frum Jews in the NY/NJ area, but very few communities to really choose from. All in all, the only option seems like Passaic, no that it doesn't sound like a great place to live - we've just got to figure out the commute.

We're excited and nervous...

Thank you all for putting so much time into this - it's helped us immeasurably. If we don't choose your community, please don't feel offended, many of you gave great pitches, we just need to find what matches our needs the best.

Tzip

IloveHashem613

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 10:21 am

Hatzlacha OP- smart that you are renting first to get a feel for the community and then deciding if you want to buy there. I think that's the smartest way to go so you are absolutely sure you like it before you put the money into a more permanent place...

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 11:33 am

(I believe TIDE == Torah Im Derech Eretz, but I didn't read the thread, only the last 2 posts.)

amother

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 2:05 pm

TzipporahN wrote:

Having said that, from all your comments, Passaic is definitely coming out as the winner - the only real question for us is the commute - we're so confused by all the options - Path, train, bus, jitney etc - we have to look into the cost and time more. It sounds like Washington Heights and LES are going to be too expensive and too small. We're going to be renting at first and, IY"H, later, buying, so we want to choose somewhere which is feasible for both. When we buy we would like to get our money's worth and not have to spend a large fortune to get something with a bit of space. (Not that we have a large fortune!) We really haven't figured out our budget yet - dh has to start the job and we have to do some calculations.

I live in Passaic and work at Madison and 24th, the commute is a little less than 1 and 1/2 hours door to door for me. I take the train to Hoboken and switch for the Path to 23rd.

Nomie

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 2:11 pm

moved to Riverdale from Washington Heights a year ago, and DH and I LOVE it here. Really close to the city, rent is reasonable, lots of kosher options (compared to WH) and lots of shul options (also in comparison to WH).

I love our little community here.

TzipporahN

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 2:22 pm

OP here:

Torah Im Derech Eretz is definitely a major part of our hashkofah.

I looked more at Passaic - what shuls would people recommend for us - we would definitely prefer a non-OU affiliated shul. I'm asking this so that I know which side of town to look at. As far as I can see there are two separate eruvin - is that correct? Does everyone hold by them?

Also, what is Teaneck like? Are there any other communities in NJ which would be appropriate?

Thanks again for all the help!

Good Shabbos!

amother

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 2:31 pm

Teaneck is nice, loads of restaurants, only 20 minutes from mid-town.. Ten minutes to the GWB, but its very very very modern...

TzipporahN

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 3:03 pm

Well, that's why no-one's suggested then :-)

amother

Fri, Nov 12 2010, 3:54 pm

TzipporahN wrote:

There is one eiruv in Passaic and everyone that holds by an eiruv holds by it.

I'll ask my DH which shul he thinks would work best for you, but honestly there are so many to chose from most people just try a bunch out and stay with the one they like best.

miriamg

Sat, Nov 13 2010, 1:31 pm

TzipporahN wrote:

What you are describing hashkafically sounds right on target for Passaic. You could probably fit in to either of the schools in Passaic (Yeshiva Bais Hillel or Yeshiva Ketana). In terms of sides of town, there are great shuls on both sides of Passaic - it's maybe a mile and a half to walk from one end to the other, so almost all options will be available. There are also plenty of shuls around. Your husband will probably want to try out several shuls before deciding on one. You can see the Eruv map of Passaic/Clifton at: http://passaicjews.com/passaic.....2.png to get an idea of what the area is. Note that this is a bit out-of-date so it is missing several shuls, and also that not all outer areas in the map actually have frum Jews living there (yet).

I hope that you can figure out a commuting option. I'm a bit surprised that it takes amother close to 1.5 hours to get to 24th and Madison. I would expect it would take just about an hour.

shabri

Sat, Nov 13 2010, 2:30 pm

amother wrote:

Teaneck is nice, loads of restaurants, only 20 minutes from mid-town.. Ten minutes to the GWB, but its very very very modern...

I don't even live in Teaneck and I take issue with this. Yes there are parts that are very modern, but there are also parts that are more right wing YU bordering on yeshivish. I have a bunch of friends and family there. Of them, they all cover their hair, some have tvs some not and some keep chalav Yisrael but many don't. OP, I wouldn't rule it out. I would check into it and go for shabbos. Try to spend time in Beth Abraham and see if it suits you.

ETA, you can also check out Far Rockaway. Its abt an hr commute to midtown on the LIRR. Similar community to what you are describing

SingALong

Sat, Nov 13 2010, 10:46 pm

highland park/edison. it is a 40 minute bus ride into the city, Port Authority at 42nd and 8th ave. there is a train as well but I don't know how long that takes, it goes to penn station. community is a big mix of diff types, MO, yeshivish, etc. there are several shuls, also edison yeshiva is there. I'm not sure about property taxes there, but all of NJ will be high...

amother

Sun, Nov 14 2010, 5:17 pm

Good luck with your move. It's very exciting! Based on your description I actually think passaic might be a little too yeshivish for you....its moved significantly to the right over the past 10 years or so. You may want to look at clifton. Very similar to passaic, right next to passaic just a little more open minded and more professional. The younger families moving into passaic for the most are not as much the professional type where as clifton is still frum but more professional type families. clifton kids go to the same schools as the passaic kids. I think YK also sounds a little to yeshivish for you but there is also the hillel or the clifton cheder that people seem to love.

Other choices might be bergenfeild, there is a nice kehilla at the shteible, and it is very close to the city....also very close to teaneck (which btw I must point out in contrast to one poster here is not "very very modern," it was but has since become more mixed, it has the modern stereotype and it certainly not yeshivish but tehre are alot of families that are neighter MO or yeshivish, families like you who fall in no-mans land who live there...and lots of yekkes too, though I do think you might do better in a more RW community) Also Edison/Highland Park is very nice but a little farther away I think. You should probably look into far rockaway and cedarhurst. There is so much in the 5 towns in terms of shopping, schools etc...

good luck!!!!

amother

Sun, Nov 14 2010, 5:19 pm

oh and I forgot to mention that the reason why I mention bergenfeild being close to teaneck is for the shopping and restaurants!!

saw50st8

Sun, Nov 14 2010, 7:35 pm

shabri wrote:

amother wrote:

Teaneck is nice, loads of restaurants, only 20 minutes from mid-town.. Ten minutes to the GWB, but its very very very modern...

Bergenfield is more RW. It has a YU "yeshivish" contingency, but its not real yeshivish. Its a beautiful place. Houses are more expensive than Passaic, but usually nicer and more land.

amother

Sun, Nov 14 2010, 9:28 pm

miriamg wrote:

I hope that you can figure out a commuting option. I'm a bit surprised that it takes amother close to 1.5 hours to get to 24th and Madison. I would expect it would take just about an hour.

An hour? I wish! I can do it in an hour and 15 mintues if I walk fast and her husband has another 5 blocks to walk. Also, I like to build in a little cushion because if you miss the train you're stuck waiting at least a 1/2 hour for the next one.

MillerFamily

Sun, Jan 02 2011, 10:16 am

The best place to live for a young frum family, is Elizabeth NJ, not to be confused with Hillside NJ (which is 2 miles away). It has every quality of a midwestern community, but it is 30 minutes from NYC.

the community is a very well established community, but lacked young familes for a number of years. about 2 years ago they started trying to get more and have since gotten about 15 young couples and families to move into town.

the community offers a a day school from nursery thru 8th grade. it has a boys mesivta and girls high school (Bruriah). it has a beis medrash and kollel and has a number of restaurants.

and the best part about elizabeth NJ is that houses are priced between 200-300K