Upset at article in Ami #7

HindaRochel

Tue, Jan 25 2011, 12:17 am

Barbara wrote:

marina wrote:

I am a big fan of natural medicine. When my kids get sick, I give them some marijuana-brownies. When they are really unwell, I might have them snort some opium-derivatives. 100% all natural. At least that's what my street pharmacist told me. And I trust him.

I want Marina to be my mommy!

Yeah but the dragon part would mean you'd have to make your own stuff...She says she would do it but I really think she means she would stand over you and make you do it... Twisted Evil

PinkFridge

Tue, Jan 25 2011, 8:31 am

HindaRochel wrote:

Barbara wrote:

marina wrote:

I want Marina to be my mommy!

Yeah but the dragon part would mean you'd have to make your own stuff...She says she would do it but I really think she means she would stand over you and make you do it... Twisted Evil

Yes children, today you will spend a minimum of three hours in the backyard weeding the weed. Don't worry, it's the first hour that's the hardest.

Barbara

Wed, Jan 26 2011, 11:39 am

saw50st8 wrote:

Seraph wrote:

Atali, I don't think a vaccine is the same category. At all.
You can compare giving medicine when sick to what you've written.
But vaccines are supposed to be preventative---and they aren't guaranteed to work--- and they have side effects---, and trying to prevent something that may or may not be an issue seems like like "playing G-d" than not vaccinating.

I don't like the term "playing G-d" and I don't think that description can be used for either of the situations.

Surgery isn't guaranteed to work.

Medicine isn't guaranteed to work either.

And to those bringing up measles - that's really a bad example because many kids who got the measles had been vaccinated.

I do believe vaccines have drastically reduced/eliminated some major diseases. I do think they are starting to overdo the vaccines - chicken pox, really?

IIRC, most who get measles in the last outbreak had received some, but not all, recommended doses.

Vaccines are never 100% effective. However, there is *herd immunity* -- if MOST people are immune, then the risk of any one person contracting the disease, whether or not immune, is low.

But, if 100 people contract measles, 80% of whom were vaccinated, that doesn't mean that the vaccine was ineffective. It may (and I'm making up numbers here) mean that 95% of those who were immunized and exposed did not contract the disease, while 50% of those who were not immunized but were exposed contracted the disease.

In any case, there may be reasons for people not to vaccinate certain children, and there may even be well-reasoned and intelligent arguments against vaccinating all children routinely. But I don't find the argument that immunization did not affect disease incidence to be a well-reasoned one.

WriterMom

Wed, Jan 26 2011, 11:50 am

Barbara wrote:

In any case, there may be reasons for people not to vaccinate certain children, and there may even be well-reasoned and intelligent arguments against vaccinating all children routinely. But I don't find the argument that immunization did not affect disease incidence to be a well-reasoned one.

We give most of the major vaccines, past infancy. I feel comfortable doing this because of herd immunity, and because I believe, on the basis of what I've learned and the opinions of others, including some doctors, that the body is more resilient to vaccines out of infancy. Because it is so hard to make this decision, I have no issue with any individual's choices for their own bodies or those of their children.

What drives me crazy are the "if YOU don't vaccinate you're gambling with your kids' lives, and you're living in the stone age, how can you?" and the "if YOU vaccinate you're gambling with your kids' lives, and you're a dupe for pharma companies, how can you?"

Health decisions are hard. Parenting decisions are hard. Combining the two is really hard. And helping people to make reasoned and informed choices requires reducing rhetoric and blame, not increasing it.

HindaRochel

Wed, Jan 26 2011, 1:22 pm

Barbara wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Seraph wrote:

To the best of my knowledge the latest outbreaks in measles were among those who WEREN'T vaccinated either because of their age (two young) or because their parents objected.

There was a study which projected that in a heavily vaccinated population the majority of children would be those who had been vaccinated, but that was a projected and not actual population

That doesn't mean those who were vaccinated can't get the disease, just that they are less likely to get the disease. But I agree with all else that you are saying.

HindaRochel

Wed, Jan 26 2011, 1:39 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

Barbara, my point was that there are so many diseases that were basically eradicated in large part from vaccine use, that those are the examples to use.

I really thought there were many fully vaccinated people who got the measles. Even though I agree with your point.

No, the majority were vaccinated or improperly vaccinated.

This is the information I can find for measles outbreaks in various years. Wiki article if that interests you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.....2000s