The Saturday Wife by Naomi Ragen

Grandmama

Thu, Apr 22 2010, 7:06 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Grandmama wrote:

sa613 wrote:

If she was writing for/within her community only then maybe I'd be kind and call it satire. But many people look to her books as a glimpse into a community. I thought it to be mean-spirited and that she was spitting into the well from which she drinks. It took me a long time to get over how angry I was at this book.

We know that she is exaggerating and trying to show us in a bad light. Its like she blows her nose, and smears it onto her face. We are one, and no frum person would ever write an awful book about MO Jews. But she loves controversy, and is always in the midst of them.

Not to start anything here Grandmama, but it's interesting to see you in particular blasting someone for putting down other Jews. You said some prettttyyy nasty things about a whole COUNTRY of Jews in that locked thread of the twenty four odd pages. Confused

I never said anything about a whole COUNTRY. Comments on imamother tend to be blown out of proportion. Plenty of people agreed with me, regardless. It was my parents opinion I spoke of, and how they felt about their lives. But after all those pages, everything was blown out of control.
I did make at least one understanding new friend out of it, and learned that there is a lot that I didn't know and was unaware of. Imamother is a learning experience, not a place to be negative in general.

Barbara

Thu, Apr 22 2010, 7:20 pm

Grandmama wrote:

DefyGravity wrote:

That's interesting, I'd never heard about the plagiarism case before. I just google Sarah Shapiro and read the article.

I stumbled upon it and it made me very mad. I was always upset while reading her books, and this was the last straw. I no longer get her daily rants, and I am not interested in her. She has an agenda, and she is looking to make money. Filth sells books, and she has no yiras shamayim.

And you believe its true because .... Because no one has ever fabricated or exaggerated on the internet. Because you're so familiar with applicable copyright law (quick -- explain scenes a faire and how they might apply to the purported claim; explain the doctrine or statutory damages; tell us about contingency fees in copyright actions) that you can appropriately analyze the claim.

This is a first. I'm the one complaining that something is lashon hara.

energy11

Fri, Apr 23 2010, 7:39 am

sequoia wrote:

It's fiction. A good reader, frum or secular, doesn't read fiction and conclude "They're all like that." You don't read 'Anna Karenina' and think "All Russian women are either adulteresses or annoying, naive good-two-shoes." You don't read 'Brideshead Revisited' and think "All English people are hypocritical, class-obsessed, emotionally stunted weirdos." You don't read 'Lolita' and think "All Russian emigrants are pedophiles."

The writer's job, her calling, is to hold up her magnifying glass to society's ills. Sometimes she may write realistic novels, sometimes satire, sometimes a roman a clef, but always her purpose is the same -- to make us laugh, to make us think, to make us more aware, to alert our imagination and powers of observation to the world around us.

Satire is a very specific genre. It is "laughter through tears." It is supposed to make us a little uncomfortable.

EXACTLY!!!!!
Thank you for this (obvious) explanation.
By the way, I LOOOOOOOOOOOVED the book.
It was so funny!!

WriterMom

Sun, May 02 2010, 11:03 pm

energy11 wrote:

sequoia wrote:

EXACTLY!!!!!
Thank you for this (obvious) explanation.
By the way, I LOOOOOOOOOOOVED the book.
It was so funny!!

I ordered it immediately, as I do with all Naomi Ragen's books. I reread it recently. I'm not sure what I think.

For me it didn't quite work as satire. I have trouble explaining exactly why. Maybe because some of the things she portrays aren't ridiculous enough because they're a bit close to reality. The bar mitzvah at sea and handbags for terror victims were, yes, funny. But the ultra-rich Russian whose wife's conversion isn't scrutinized ... the grandfather who is wise to the "protagonist" and is ignored (and conveniently dies) ... the girls who have no interest whatsoever in school beyond catching a husband ... I've seen variations of these in reality.

The childbirth scene actually made me laugh out loud, which reading seldom does, even when I find it hilarious.

Totally agree that a) painting pretty pictures of any group isn't her job and b) she's entitled to be highly critical of the frum world, and that doing so doesn't make her less frum.

I never found her earlier books mean, and I did, a bit, this one. I read her "gothic" novels as a secular teenager, and what shone through for me was the love and compassion that lay at the heart of true yiddishkeit. Yes, a lot of her villains were frum Jews (the whole book is set in the frum world, it'd be hard not to do that) but their behavior was clearly portrayed as a violation of the frum order of things, and the people and things that redeemed the protagonists were also frum.

JollyMommy

Sun, Jun 13 2010, 2:15 am

this thread makes me want to pick up the book tomorrow!

further, in response to the plagiarism charge against naomi ragen, I am pretty (but not professionally) knowledgeable of copy right laws and found the authors example pathetic. you are allowed to take stories and real life situations that you heard about and craft a story around it. ragen even changed many details, to me the scenes that shapiro complains about are only hazily based on shapiro's stories, which is legal anyway.

I actually read the book shapiro wrote many years ago and found it disturbing and I could not connect with the author. now I see why. the girl has a chip on her shoulder.

Isramom8

Sun, Nov 21 2010, 7:12 am

Read this recently. Not sure why I got into yet another of her books. Delilah was so mean to her gay friend! I wouldn't be that mean in my role as a rabbi's wife. I want to be anonymous after succombing to reading another novel of hers.

The childbirth scene was funny in a predictable and trite way - that's why I just skimmed it. You could have guessed that the character who turned out to be non-Jewish would be, but the way it came out was written funny and cute. I liked how the Israeli rep put her in her place about the handbags - so stark Israeli in her face.

I could never relate to girls sort of like Delilah in real life and I still can't.

SPOILER:

I found one factor redeeming and that was the way she never went all the way with other men once she was married. See, this is my problem - I always think of people as being really frum at heart, but Delilah really isn't. In real life I would overestimate her and maybe wind up eating at her home.

I'm mad at Naomi - I wish I could write as well as her so that I could clean up her dirt.

BTW Rochelle Majer Krich's son used to visit our home as a frum yeshiva bachur.

saw50st8

Sun, Nov 21 2010, 8:41 am

lech lecha08 wrote:

I read this awhile ago but last Shabbos I saw my mil has the Hebrew version and it's called Eizer k'negdo. I found the title "translation" sort of sarcastic

I like that title better.

I hated and loved this book. What I like is that when I get into a materialstic mood, I can think back to Delilah and realize how destructive that can be. Not that I am anyway shape or form in her league (and I was a virgin when I got married and I don't fool around with other men....), she helps tame my inner green devil.