running a washing machine on Shabbot

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Jun 15 2011, 8:59 am

BSD, if you want a source, this may be it:

"The noise machine should not be used on Shabbat, like many other electronic appliances, because of “Uvda Dechol” which means doing things that don’t fit the Shabbat spirit [Tzitz Eliezer vol. 3 16,11]."

freidasima

Wed, Jun 15 2011, 9:46 am

Here's one for you.
If you have a chayal come home right before shabbos and he has to go back to his base right after shabbos....you are allowed to put the stuff in the machine and also to take it out and hang it in the house so that people don't see. If everyone in the neighborhood knows that you have a chayal and that's a possibility of a situation, you can hang it on the line outside.

Yeah yeah I know. You are doing something muktze by opening up the machine (once you open it and take out the stuff you can't close the door) but the need for your chayal - if of course he has no clean clothing or underwear to take back to the base and won't be able to do laundry there let's say if he isn't going back to a base but to an outpost etc. - overrides the muktze.

That's a pretty accepted psak in DL circles here in EY.

My son had such situations all the time but he never wanted us to do this, the only thing he would do would be if the wash finished on time to put things into the dryer and let them stay there all shabbos once they dryed. But in other cases he would end up going back with dirty underwear, it seemed not to bother him somewhat....ah boys...

chocolate moose

Wed, Jun 15 2011, 12:33 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I'm sorry - are you referring to a White Noise Machine ?

Liba

Wed, Jun 15 2011, 1:19 pm

But a noise machine is a machine made to make noise. it isn't the same shayla at all. It is more akin to asking about a radio or TV than a drier that was already running.

Do you also turn off things like dehumidifiers in basements and sump pumps before Shabbos? Ceiling fans? Some of our ceiling fans make some noise and our floor fans make a ton of noise. Do they need to be turned off before Shabbos as well?

The noise argument isn't working for me, sorry.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Jun 15 2011, 1:25 pm

I learned it not with noise machines, but davka about house appliances and was trying to find a source...I'm pretty certain it's brought down as "uvda d'chol"...

This is interesting.
http://www.shemayisrael.com/pa.....ftn12
According to this, R' Shternbuch is meikil and allows a washing machine to continue running on Shabbos?
(This is not addressing the timer situation in OP, which I believe is more meikil for sefardim than Ashkenazim...)

shalhevet

Wed, Jun 15 2011, 1:28 pm

Liba, the problem with noise is noise from something doing something you shouldn't be doing on Shabbat - we don't do laundry on Shabbat, so even if we started the machine before Shabbat, we shouldn't be hearing the noise. But you are allowed to have a fan or A/C running, so it doesn't make us think of chol.

Liba

Wed, Jun 15 2011, 1:50 pm

Shalhevet I am not saying one should do these things, but my drier isn't so loud that it would be making anyone think of anything. I often find myself going back into the laundry room to make sure that I remembered to turn it on. Unless there are overalls or a winter coat in there with snaps it is pretty close to silent.

Besiyata Dishmaya

Sat, Jun 18 2011, 5:19 pm

I don't understand. Why would noise make it uvda d'chol and if doesn't make noise, is it allowed?

If riding a bike is because of a chain falling off, what about tricycles or a state-of-the-art bike that has no problem with chains?

Freidasima, are you saying that you'd take it out of your washing machine on Shabbos and hang it up on Shabbos or did I misunderstand?

Liba

Sat, Jun 18 2011, 5:37 pm

BD that is why kids can (and do) ride tricycles on Shabbos but not bicycles. Smile

My washing machine doesn't have a timer so I try not to have it running when Shabbos starts, because if it was laundry would be sitting in the washing machine getting gross all Shabbos. With a 2 hour wash cycle and a problem with the drain in the bathroom floor that makes for a lot of wet towels, we often put clothing in the drier right before Shabbos. We have asked and told it wasn't an issue.

Sat, Jun 18 2011, 11:19 pm

[quote="Liba"]BD that is why kids can (and do) ride tricycles on Shabbos but not bicycles. Smile

/quote]

Tricycles dont have chains and the tires are not usually the type you need to pump -another possible issur to fix on shabbat if you get a flat tire.
That is also why technically the little razor scooters are usable on shabbat too. I would love if I could use on of the scooters to get to shul it would be a much shorter 'walk' that way.

Tova

Sun, Jun 19 2011, 12:02 am

Interesting to see this thread which I'm reading for the first time because my husband just looked up bike/trike riding on Shabbos. I don't know the source he was looking at but came out that tricycles are OK (assuming you have an Eruv) because they are only used for children's play, while bicylcles are a shayla because they are also used for hotza'ah. The upshot of it all was that we let my four year old ride his new bike this Shabbos because he was very eager to do so and not really chinuch age. We'd be more machmir in a couple of years.

alte mamme

Sun, Jun 19 2011, 12:52 am

chocolate moose wrote:

A coffee machine is like a crockpot. The din is that a self contained appliance is allowed to operate on its own, because you won't be tempted to monkey with it.

I know this was a while ago, but I wanted to respond to it.

I think that a coffee machine is not like a crock pot, in that it is brewing the coffee, rather than just keeping it warm (assuming that your cholent is mostly cooked before Shabbos begins).

I asked the shaila about the coffeemaker when a non-frum relative was visiting and desperately wanted real coffee for Shabbos morning. My (ashkenazi) rav said that under certain conditions it would be ok to set it up for her, but it wasn't something I should do for myself, nor should I drink from the pot that was made for her.

I guess the idea was that it isn't in the spirit of Shabbos and the fear is that one will come to take things more lightly if Shabbos isn't treated different from the weekday? Whereas my non-frum relative is making herself coffee every shabbos anyway, so it was worth doing it for her oneg on Shabbos. Unfortunately, I never have enough time with the rav to really understand the why's.

That was a shaila for me personally. Obviously, everyone should ask their own shailos for ANY halachic matter

chocolate moose

Sun, Jun 19 2011, 3:39 pm

alte mamme wrote:

I know this was a while ago, but I wanted to respond to it.

A while ago? This was last week !

alte mamme wrote:

I think that a coffee machine is not like a crock pot

The din isn't what you think. the din is the din. And I was told clearly that they are the same thing.

alte mamme wrote:

I asked the shaila about the coffeemaker when a non-frum relative was visiting and desperately wanted real coffee for Shabbos morning. My (ashkenazi) rav said that under certain conditions it would be ok to set it up for her, but it wasn't something I should do for myself, nor should I drink from the pot that was made for her.r

FTR, it's allowed to have your coffee brewed on a timer. Your rov says it's complicated, no problem. I know how to do complicated things, bh !

alte mamme wrote:

I guess the idea was that it isn't in the spirit of Shabbos

again,the din is poskened according to your own seichel. the din is poskened according to the din. don't say something isn't allowed just because you don't do it, or because you don't understand it.

Besiyata Dishmaya

Sun, Jun 19 2011, 5:43 pm

JC wrote:

Liba wrote:

BD that is why kids can (and do) ride tricycles on Shabbos but not bicycles. Smile

Tricycles dont have chains and the tires are not usually the type you need to pump -another possible issur to fix on shabbat if you get a flat tire.

Since the problem might also be with the wheel falling off, I would think that carriages should also not be allowed on Shabbos and YT.

Quote:

That is also why technically the little razor scooters are usable on shabbat too. I would love if I could use on of the scooters to get to shul it would be a much shorter 'walk' that way.

I'm imagining all Jews - men and women, old and young - scooting to shul shabbos morning LOL

alte mamme

Sun, Jun 19 2011, 8:31 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

alte mamme wrote:

I know this was a while ago, but I wanted to respond to it.

A while ago? This was last week !

alte mamme wrote:

I think that a coffee machine is not like a crock pot

The din isn't what you think. the din is the din. And I was told clearly that they are the same thing.

alte mamme wrote:

FTR, it's allowed to have your coffee brewed on a timer. Your rov says it's complicated, no problem. I know how to do complicated things, bh !

alte mamme wrote:

I guess the idea was that it isn't in the spirit of Shabbos

again,the din is poskened according to your own seichel. the din is poskened according to the din. don't say something isn't allowed just because you don't do it, or because you don't understand it.

As I said, I ASKED A SHAILA AND RECEIVED A PSAK. I was not saying something was not allowed because I didn't understand it. It was not allowed, for me, because my rav told me so, and I always do what my rav says, whether I understand his reasoning or not!
And I did make the point that it was a psak for me, and not necessarily for anyone else. I don't care what you do with your coffeemaker.