Do we have to let landlord show our apartment now?

JAWSCIENCE

Mon, Jun 27 2011, 5:14 pm

amother wrote:

There is no lease. It was all rather heimish.

If it was all "heimish" that somehow conjures an image up in my mind of the landlord walking in at any time anyway.... Very Happy

But in all seriousness, paying rent does not give you sole rights to the property. I live in a building where the housing department can come in any time to do "preventative maintenance". They have to give us some warning but that is usually something like "during the next two weeks between the hours of 8am-6pm we will be stopping by to change your air filters". There's no way I am going to be able to be home all that time, but I can be sure to not leave valuables out. And if there is an emergency they do not need notice. They just need to leave a note saying they were there. And frankly if my fire fire sprinkler goes off, I WANT them showing up and dealing with it even if I am still on my way home. Every minute wasted is another piece of furniture down the drain and another neighbor getting flooded.

sv9506

Mon, Jun 27 2011, 9:18 pm

This is not legal advice but when we were in this situation 2 years ago - this is what we did: we had been having lots of problems with our landlords and might have been more willing to work with them if that had not been the case. Anyway - we were buying a house and gave a months notice (what was required when we had a lease, but our lease had already expired so we were probably not technically required to give any notice) and they wanted to show the house at ALL times and without us present (to give a copy of the key to the broker). They had the broker calling us to harass us. So we asked for an extra week to get ourselves together and then we asked the broker that was dealing with our house purchase what was required. I don't remember the exact wording but she said something about that it had to be reasonable - so we could say that it could only be when we were home, only at reasonable hours (meaning if it was after DS went to sleep and we okayed it then they would not be allowed into that room - basically early evening), only with enough notice and 2-3 times per week was sufficient (we did not need to be bothered every night or even a few times a night). So thats what we did even though the landlord was annoyed. Also - it stands to reason that there would definitely be a time between tenants where the apartment would not be rented since repairs etc usually need to be done. So obviously landlords want to minimize this time but it does not usually work out that one day tenants leave and the next day new tenants come. Our landlords actually did not want to work with any new tenants so the apartment was actually not rented for like 5-6 months after we left!!!

paprika

Mon, Jun 27 2011, 9:24 pm

shoshina wrote:

paprika wrote:

shoshina wrote:

1. Is it reasonable to object to people coming in when you're not home: yes and no. The landlord owns the property, he is allowed to come in and inspect even when you're not home, so can the landlord come in while you're not home and show it, yes he can. Can he send other people into your apartment without his presence? No he can't. I know its awkward and uncomfortable, but he owns the place.

The above is legality or your opinion? As long as I pay rent, it's my apartment. I doubt my landlord could just walk in.

The above is from my own lease. Landlord may enter premises without notice for health and safety and property issues (if I am at work and my pipes explode, yes he can just walk in and fix them when they flood my neighbors house) and give 24 hours notice for scheduled issues (I then have 24 hours to rearrange my schedule if I insist on being home)

So yes Paprika, even if you pay rent, he can just walk in, and its for his protection and everyone else in your building. I do know some landlords, particularly those who rent to students, who insist on a quarterly inspection because of the cleaning issues (one unit gets roaches, they'll ALL eventually get roaches) that impact the value of the building (no one wants to live somewhere with roaches).

I understand that when there's danger, the landlord may walk into the house, but showing an apartment is not danger.

life'sgreat

Mon, Jun 27 2011, 11:48 pm

amother wrote:

Sigh, I guess that's what I was expecting to hear.

Regarding the "lease," our agreement from the outset was that we'd give a month's notice before leaving so that's kosher v'yosher. We'd been looking for a place for a while and let them know as soon as we found one.

I'm not talking about spotless, though. I'm talking about not wanting the whole world to see my dirty laundry. Literally. I guess what I'm most objecting to is the pushiness because I really don't have a problem straightening up and letting them see, but they called while we were away for the weekend and are really being pushy about it. I feel like, hello, I'm not home, you have to at least give me a couple hours to make the place presentable. When I get home from work today I'll get right to it, with one hand while my baby kvetches in the other. But please stop being so nudgy, we JUST gave notice and haven't had a chance.

Also, is it reasonable to tell them that I don't want people coming when I'm not home? Granted, I don't spend tons of time at home, but I'm VERY uncomfortable with strangers being around my stuff when I'm not there.

I think it's unreasonable to expect them not to show the apartment only on your terms (which seem impossible). I also think that if you're so adamant about people seeing your mess or laundry, you should find the time to clean up and keep things just orderly enough to make it bearable.

Mama Bear

Mon, Jun 27 2011, 11:51 pm

Shabbatiscoming, where would I put all the boxes??? it's better for the stuff to stay in the shelves than sit around in boxes all over the house... Im organizing already, purging tons of stuff, but everything is going neatly back on the shelves. I'll pack 5 days before moving day IYH.

thanks, Jaws.

aidelmaidel, I am being totally honest with the ppl who call. Why is it a bigger aveirah to tell the prospective tentants the truth about the landlord, than to let them move in and then suffer? I tell them the honest turth that the landlord does not maintain the apartment or hallways AT ALL, and ALL repairs, mouseproofing etc are going to be their responsibility. At the same time, my landlords are lovely, lovely people. It's a strange paradox.... but so it is.

Merrymom

Tue, Jun 28 2011, 12:14 am

There was a time when my kids went to school an hour late every day because I wouldn't leave the apartment until it was completely spotless and ready to be shown to the tenants. I actually liked having someone breathe down my back that way. It forced me to get my act together. So long as they weren't coming at night, that's where I drew the line.

notshanarishona

Tue, Jun 28 2011, 3:45 am

When we were moving and gave 2 months notice, our landlord was taking advantage of us by asking us to show the apartment all hours of the day, sometimes in the night, and if we would say it was a bad time he would come himself to show it.

So what we did was set down conditions:
I told him I was available to show it myself 2 times a week between x-x (gave him a 2 hour time span). I told him straight out I was not willing to answer questions on the apartment for more than 5 minutes (people would come and stay an hour because they were looking to buy and I didn't have time for that.) I was working from home during this time and they were only able to come if they didn't disturb me.
If he wanted to come and show it himself other than that, we needed at least 4 hours notice and it had to be before 8 PM.
People were not allowed to come with more than 1 kid (we had one person who came and crashed the house with 5 kids who they didn't watch while the adults were looking).

At first he got upset with us but once we were firm, he stopped driving us crazy and this way we knew to clean up a little (if we were able) on the days when we told people they could come.

Hatzlacha with the move.

life'sgreat

Tue, Jun 28 2011, 8:58 am

Mama Bear wrote:

You pile them up in a corner of the dining room, or bedroom, or even hallway. Packing methodically and with a head is amazing! Your unpacking and 'aftermove' is a breeze.

aidelmaidel

Tue, Jun 28 2011, 9:43 am

life'sgreat wrote:

Mama Bear wrote:

You pile them up in a corner of the dining room, or bedroom, or even hallway. Packing methodically and with a head is amazing! Your unpacking and 'aftermove' is a breeze.

We started packing our seforim and toys first. We had the luxury of piling up boxes in the "downstairs" hallway, and we easily put the first 50 boxes there, stacked up to 5 high. Whatever I could pack, I did, and we hired a bochur to pack. (Although it took me about 4 months until I found the licht...)

amother

Tue, Jun 28 2011, 9:54 am

Maybe it IS the landlords property, but you're still the one paying rent for it, I really don't think a landlord has the right to walk into your private space if you're paying for it. Yes you DO have to allow him to show the apartment. The reason you must give notice IS so he can start looking for new tenants. And if he can't show it, he can't find new tenants. I've had to pay an extra month rent cause I didn't "give them notice" I "only" mentioned that I'm looking for an apartment (another story) Rolling Eyes

In most places I've heard of, the landlord gives the people calling to look at the apartment, the phone number of the tenant. They call the tenant to make an "appointment" to check the place out. Maybe tell your landlord to do that. This way you tell THEM when to come.

notshanarishona

Tue, Jun 28 2011, 10:03 am

I personally would not want my LL giving out my number. Let him deal with all people's preliminary questions about the size, condition, price, etc.. of the apartment.
Unless you have a really nice LL, you don't owe him anything and once you are leaving you have no reason to do him favors.
It is his job (not yours) to deal with all the people who respond. Your job as a tennant is to allow him to show it.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Jun 28 2011, 1:16 pm

life'sgreat wrote:

Mama Bear wrote:

You pile them up in a corner of the dining room, or bedroom, or even hallway. Packing methodically and with a head is amazing! Your unpacking and 'aftermove' is a breeze.

Exactly as LG said. We put them in corners, in our spare room, in the living room. I would much rather be packed a few days before we move with 99.999999% of the stuff than not be sure if we will make it. Also my husband works full time and I work three full days a week so its hard to leave it for a week before we move. I wont have the time, so thats also a difference.