From a Halachic Standpoint (Levi Ahron)

farm

Thu, Jul 14 2011, 3:41 pm

princessleah wrote:

Isn't it the case, according to Halacha, that a person confessing to a sin does not hold water-- we are not supposed to believe them? That we need two eidim?

So according to the Halacha, regardless of the NY court system, are we not supposed to take this confession?

Personally, I'm fine to go with a NY jury's verdict of 'guilty'. But are we supposed to accept it Halachically if it's based on a confession?

Yes, his confession would not be accepted. 2 witnesses would have to testify, which would not happen in this case. I believe there is halachic discussion as to what role forensic evidence can play in terms of acting as a "witness" to a crime, but I would imagine there is tremendous machlokes in that area. Bottom line in the time of Beis Din, Someoneoutthere summed it up well- there are ways of killing the criminal indirectly, as he would not be chayav mesas beis din al pi din.

718

Thu, Jul 14 2011, 4:23 pm

IloveHashem613 wrote:

There is a reason that the Torah says "if you show mercy to the wicked, you will show wickedness to the kind". We have ZERO obligation to show any mercy to this man just because he is a so-called "Jew". One of the defining character traits of a Jew is that he is a rachmun- that we as Jews naturally have mercy for others. This man is pure evil to the core and it seriously makes me mad that anyone would even contemplate giving this man less harsh treatment because he is a Jew. He deserves to be treated the way any black man who committed this type of crime should be treated. Its okay you can all accuse me of racism but if a black man was found to have committed this murder, no one would even think about giving him an ounce of mercy and he'd be prosecuted to the full letter of the law. This scum of the earth Levi Aron should get the same treatment. Its actually an aveira to give this man dan l'kaf zechus or show him any sort of mercy or sympathy. The Torah is there to help guide us as a society and help eachother but when there is evil in our society, we need to uproot it and remove it from our midst and this man is the epitome of such evil. The laws of Loshon Hora, pidyon shevuyim etc... DO NOT apply to such a man!!! Saying that we should show him sypmathy is the same as the leftist israelis showing sympathy to the "poor, opressed" Palestinians who teach their innocent children to blow up Jews. We should hear only good news and no more sorrow!

Emotionally I agree
Maybe you can feel bad for the parents and family of the perpetrator... but not the perp himself!

Doesnt it feel like Leiby is family??? and you still feel bad for the devil? beyond me...

718

Thu, Jul 14 2011, 4:26 pm

life'sgreat wrote:

abound wrote:

According to Halacha, he is not considered part of am Yisroel. He is not allowed to be part of a minyan, you are allowed to talk lashon hara about him etc.

Killing him according to halacah may be a problem since there wasn't 2 eidim. But since he will not run to a "ir Miklat" the family can kill him till he gets there. Either way I do not know if he gets ir miklat, I think that in the time of sanhedrin (it would not have happened) they would find a way to kill him according to halacha.

Are you sure it wouldn't have happened?

A Bes din that killed one person in 70 years was considered a murderous Bes Din. It was very rare for Bes din to subject to corporal punishment.

grin

Thu, Jul 14 2011, 4:54 pm

718 wrote:

life'sgreat wrote:

abound wrote:

Are you sure it wouldn't have happened?

A Bes din that killed one person in 70 years was considered a murderous Bes Din. It was very rare for Bes din to subject to corporal punishment.

a) there's a difference of opinion if once in 7 years or once in 70
b) there is always that "once".
c) that only worked when the Jews were living in their own land with the beis hamikdosh, etc. and all were frum. I think otherwise, they would turn it over to civil courts.

Besiyata Dishmaya

Thu, Jul 14 2011, 5:39 pm

luv2cook4eva wrote:

please don't bash me and call me [crazy] or anything like that. I don't want to be anon because it doesn't "bother" me that I have this question.

my question is- are we still obligated to do pidyon shvium, dan l'kaff z'chus, etc...?

clearly everyone have VERY passionate feelings about the outcome of his trial. Don't get me wrong- I'M NOT CONDONING HIS BEHAVIOR, NOR DO I FEEL HE DESERVES THE ABOVE.

I am just curious as to what halacha has to say about the subject.

again, don't call me naive or stupid, or whatever creative names you think of. all I want to know is what God tells us to do in such a situation.

Pidyon shevuyim applies to humans, not animals.

life'sgreat

Thu, Jul 14 2011, 8:41 pm

718 wrote:

life'sgreat wrote:

abound wrote:

Are you sure it wouldn't have happened?

A Bes din that killed one person in 70 years was considered a murderous Bes Din. It was very rare for Bes din to subject to corporal punishment.

I misunderstood. I thought you meant that such a crime wouldn't have happened back then.

penguin

Tue, Jul 26 2011, 12:42 am

From The Yeshiva World News Coffee Room:

Quote:

The source of the story was Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld. Someone mentioned the Zionist murderers of Dr Dahan, z'l, and added yemach shemo. Rav Sonnenfeld said, "If he would die childless, no matter how big a baal aveira [sinner] he was, the Torah would require his brother to marry the almana [widow] (or chalitza). The posuk adds, 'V'lo yimacheh shemo miYisroel.[and his name shall not be erased from Klal Yisroel] The Torah does not want any Yid to have his name erased from Klal Yisroel. From here we learn never to say Yemach Shemo on a Yid."