WAY off the derech teen in the community, what to do?

amother

Thu, Aug 25 2011, 11:59 am

FF, I'm the mother of a teenage daughter. My daughter became friendly with a girl who was going down the OTD path. I didn't know what to do, I trusted my daughter so I thought I'd just allow the relationship to fall apart naturally and not to intefere. Well after about two years (!) it did fall apart. My daughter tells me that if she had a daughter she would have become involved and ended the friendship. She tells me that it's very hard for her now because this girl's voice runs in her head, how she curses, questions everything. My daughter says that she had very serious issues with her emunah after becoming friends with this girl. Not because she doesn't really believe, but just because if that's what you hear all the time you get influenced and become cynical. When she gets upset her immediate reaction is "what the f___!" She controls herself from saying it but it's there in her head. So, I'm sorry about what I did to her. I won't make the same mistake again. My children come before the feelings of some otd rebel.

shnitzel

Thu, Aug 25 2011, 12:05 pm

amother wrote:

She says that now.
Most of the time when a parent tries to overtly end a relationship it just strengthens the relationship and the influence over the teen. I am not the parent of a teen but spend a lot of time with teens and I don't know what I would do in that situation but in general with teenagers the hard you push the harder they push back. And whatever the parent did in any situation was wrong.

Barbara

Thu, Aug 25 2011, 12:30 pm

If you know how to end your teen's friendship with someone you don't like, please let me know. I can't figure it out. Teens are out of the house, at school, at shul, at the park. They'll hang out with whomever they choose, no matter what you say. Or maybe that's just my kid.

Anyway, what would we do. We'd probably talk about how amazing Miriam is. I mean, Miriam is only 16. You and your friends, at 16, spend your time playing video games and going to the mall and shooting hoops and hanging out. Can you imagine being Miriam, and giving most of that up to change diapers and get up at 2 am for feedings and not be able to go to school and parties and hang with friends; not be looking forward to college. Can you imagine that instead of thinking about being a camp counselor next summer, you're thinking about day care and day camp for your own child.

We'd talk about all the things that a teen parent gives up.

And we'd talk openly about religious issues. And particularly about how wonderful it is to have a Shabbat. Just think. After shul, you don't have to run to the supermarket or do homework or do those everyday tasks. Miriam does. She doesn't have a day of rest.

PinkFridge

Thu, Aug 25 2011, 12:52 pm

Barbara wrote:

And I'd also talk about how sad and conflicted she is, and suggest having her in mind when we daven Sim Shalom, that she should find inner peace.

Fox

Thu, Aug 25 2011, 1:04 pm

shnitzel wrote:

amother wrote:

I agree with Shnitzel's assessment completely!

Of course, we would all prefer to have someone else to blame for our mistakes of judgment -- whether it's a misplaced friendship or a bad fashion choice. Your teen DD needs to realize that taking responsibility for choices is a part of accepting adult responsibilities.

Don't let your DD foist this responsibility exclusively onto you! She learned a difficult lesson about choosing friends carefully. While none of us want ourselves or our children to suffer permanently from the consequences of bad judgment, it's important that your DD learn from this episode that she must choose friends who support her goals for herself, not that she rely on Mommy to keep away any bad influences.

Experience is a hard teacher: it gives the test first and teaches the lesson afterward.

lilacdreams

Fri, Aug 26 2011, 8:23 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

There's a girl in my community who got pregnant when she was 16. She kept the baby, and has since married a non Jewish guy, but she tells everyone he's Jewish (not the baby's father, he's in jail). She's heavily tattooed and pierced, dresses trashy, and dyes her hair green. shock

She likes to hang around shul at kiddush time (never davens) to chat with the other teens. She's very friendly, outgoing and bubbly, and the other kids are getting caught up in her circle.

I think she's a dangerous influence on these kids, because the community is just barely orthodox, and these kids could go either way very easily. She's making horrible life choices, and making it look like fun, like she hasn't a care in the world. People are reluctant to shoo her away because "of course everyone wants to see her come back to observance, and after all, she's Jewish and so is her baby."

It's a really tough call, but it just kills me when I see her with younger teens, and they're hanging on her every word. What would you do? (OK, maybe not you personally, but if you were the community rabbi.)

you should daven that this never happens to your children, and while you're at it daven that you are the perfect parent also. But know that even with all your tefillos, and being a perfect parent things still may go wrong with your teen - then how would you feel if you were ostricized in the community?

Kayza

Sun, Aug 28 2011, 3:22 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

How would you talk to your daughter or son about this girl? Would you encourage the friendship, give a gentle warning, or tell you child to stay away and find some frum kids to hang out with?

Your talking about a questioning kid - do you rally think any parent with sense is going to tell such a kid "stay away"? I should hope not. On the other hand, why on earth encourage the friendship.

A conversation would not be about this girl at all, but life choices. Like why would you choose to marry a guy? Do you really want to get pushed into a marriage because you're expecting his kid? Do you really want to marry a guy who only did it for the kid? Sure it's better than a guy who won't take any responsibility, but really, is that the best you think you can do? A conversation of this sort kills two birds with one stone. It does make it clear that this "cool" young woman is not exactly a role model, without that parent saying it, because the teenager can figure this out for herself. It also gives the kid some serious food for thought that goes WAY beyond any possible influence the young mother might have.

ElTam

Sun, Aug 28 2011, 8:53 am

FF, I really hope you will reach out to this girl. It seems like you have a lot to offer her. She is coming to shul for a reason. She could be at home on the couch...

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Quote:

Just for the record, Chabad does NOT get attitude about oddly, or immodestly, dressed Jews walking in. You could first go to a nearby Chabad by yourself, and ask advice from the rebbetzin. If appropriate, you could then take this girl there, having made an appointment, so the rebbetzin or rabbi expects both of you.

Dolly, I find your assumption that "we don't help Jews who are in trouble, that's Chabad's job" deeply troubling. That is the job of every Jew. Why would you assume this girl would be ameniable to being dumped off elsewhere? Do you think she's too stupid to figure out the game you're suggesting? Oh, I see a person drowning, I think I'll just call a lifeguard and hope she doesn't go under in the meantime.

Also, I think you don't know too much about Chabad. You cannot make these sort of blanket assumptions. "Oh, let's drop her off at Chabad and it will be fine." She's not a puppy you take to the animal shelter and trust someone will adopt her. For the record, I know of a Chabad that kicked a girl out of shul ON YOM KIPPUR for wearing pants. I myself went to a Chabad once (we were eating by people who davened there). I was spoken to very rudely when I asked where to put my stroller. I was inside the eruv, which I hold by, but was told very nastily that they don't have a place for strollers because the eruv isn't kosher. (Um, I'll let all the rabbaim who endorse it know that.)