Do you give money to Rebbeim/Moros on Purim?

33055

Fri, Mar 02 2012, 12:14 am

Raisin wrote:

Squishy, you obviously chose your kids schools because it imparts certain values. One of which is obviously not college education. So why bemoan the low quality of the teachers? Why do you send to this school? are there no other schools which share your hashkafah but have better teachers?

I agree teachers need both knowledge and teaching skills. However an unknowledgable teacher can be annoying to a bright student, a bad teacher with no teaching skills can destroy a student. (eg an untrained Rebbe who uses physical violence to discipline since he has not learnt any other ways of motivating his students)

Quote:

I really just wanted a job while my kids were in school because I was bored. I would be devastated if I were doing this for parnosa. I have taught at a college where they welcome credentials.

So because you don't need money you assume all other women don't need money either?

Not at all. I think I would be devastated if I trained for a profession and my very training disqualified me. The fact that a teacher has training should enhance her resume. If I needed to teach and could not get a job because I was overqualified, I would be extremely upset. Most people don't work because they are bored. I now do volunteer work. Who would have thunk that schools frown on certification.

33055

Fri, Mar 02 2012, 12:23 am

Raisin wrote:

Quote:

I really just wanted a job while my kids were in school because I was bored. I would be devastated if I were doing this for parnosa. I have taught at a college where they welcome credentials.

So because you don't need money you assume all other women don't need money either?

I also don't know how we get to Rabbi's beating kids because they are untrained. Neither gender are trained teachers. The female teachers have the same handicaps as the male teachers. I have issues with certain teachers methods. My daughter has a teacher that expects the kids to be bad. She has a whole color coded system when the girls misbehave. They are assigned a color. The only problem with her system are these are very good girls. She should have the same well thought out type of system for when the girls succeed. I have voiced the wrongness of this approach. There is no recognition for being a normal or successful girl.

33055

Fri, Mar 02 2012, 12:36 am

apple24 wrote:

Squishy wrote:

apple24 wrote:

Squishy wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Squishy wrote:

Raisin wrote:

am I the only person uncomfortable with the double standard of giving money to male tachers and less or none to female teachers?

(I understand if you give less to a teacher because she only teaches your kid half the day, but just because she is female? Her family needs the money just as much as your sons rebbes family)

I give MM and money on Purim for all.

On Rosh Chodash, Chanukah and Pesach, I give money to the male Rabbis. I give $54.00 a month to my the primary rebbe. I give $36.00 to the English rebbe. He often supplies extra Torah learning. I give nothing to his mora or my daughter's teacher.

The justification is the rebbes have more training and education and should be rewarded for same. I am not saying the teachers don't work a hard; but the males in this line of work have the training equivalent to a post doctoral degree. The females are raising their family. While both need the money, the ones who are immersed night and day in Torah deserve the money more.

You dont think that any of the morot have teaching degrees? And I dont juts mean a certificate from a seminary, but a proper degree in education?

Wow, what a terrible double standard.

The males have the training equivalent to a post doctoral degree??????????? Are you serious? How is their training any more than the morot?

And the "females are raising their families" is complete hogwash. If they are teaching, they are working and they deserve juts as much as the rabbanim.

Just for the record, no money was ever given to any teachers when I went to school. Is this only in the yehsivish /charedi circles? I never heard of this.

Regrettably, where I live having a degree is a drawback. I have several advanced degrees. I approached some schools when I first moved up here and I was told that because of my degrees, I would not be hired. I then told the next schools I approached that I graduated college leaving off my my Doctoral and Masters degrees. Same response. My thoughts are that the administration does not want the role models for the girls to hold degrees. I have substituted for boys schools with no problems. I really just wanted a job while my kids were in school because I was bored. I would be devastated if I were doing this for parnosa. I have taught at a college where they welcome credentials.

Having now worked in a school, I realize that I am the only one with even basic college courses. I know several young teachers who received their certificates while still in High School.

The reason I equate their training to a Post Doctoral degree is because I hold a post doctoral degree. I have four years of College, 2 of my first Masters, 3 of my Doctoral degree and 1 more of my advanced degree. A Rabbi learning until his late twenties has the equivalent learning I have. I have no idea what the requirements of Shmicha are; but I imagine the exam is a rigorous as writing and defending a dissertation. I have total respect for the learning of the Rebbes.

I do firmly believe that schooling is one factor in the making of a fine teacher. Experience and personality are other factors. I am not in administration so I don't know why they don't insist on proper training for their teachers.

BTW, I come from a world where this would be considered topsy turvy.

Back to law work. A paralegal and a lawyer might both be doing the same work. The lawyer deserves more.

Are you seriously kidding me? It sounds like you are insinuating that Morahs are like paralegals and Rabbeim are like lawyers. That is REALLY low. Wow. I am truly in shock.

I would like just ONE teacher in my kids school to have the training of a public school teacher. Why does that make me such a bad parent because I want qualified teachers?

I also firmly believe there are some paralegals who know more than some lawyers; but without personal knowledge, I want the certified lawyer.

I want the teachers to have training and certification. Why is it so wrong that I want the teacher to at least have attended college? I would really prefer if they graduated with a teaching certificate on a college level. A masters in the subject they were teaching would be appropriate too.

That is not what is insulting. You are missing the boat. What is insulting is claimingthat Rabbeim have "post doctorate" level degrees because they have been sitting and learning and Morahs have nothing, so they deserve nothing..
You do realize that a Rebbe can be sitting and learning for years and barely touch upon the Gemara that they will be teaching. Or another example, Rabbeim often teach Navi to elementary age students - most men in Yeshiva don't sit and "shteig" Navi. Assuming only knowledge of the subject is what makes a good teacher (which I clearly disagree with), the Rebbe himself may not even be immersed in the actual subject at hand.

I am sorry that you are bitter are about the school that your children are attending - but that doesn't mean it's ok to demean every other teacher/morah out there. We all make a choice when we send our kids to a certain school. I imagine there are good reasons why your children are where they are. I would venture to guess that it has less to do with the quality of information they are getting and more to do with the Torah values that are imparted.

I am very disappointed with the quality of the education my children receive. They are getting subpar education in their secular subjects. The others, I am not enough of an expert to speak knowledgeably. My children go to private schools because public schools are not an acceptable alternative in my community. It is so unfair that for the tuition I pay, I can't get some certified teachers at least in secular subjects.

myself

Fri, Mar 02 2012, 6:17 am

apple24 wrote:

Optione wrote:

myself wrote:

We also give an envelope with money along with the MM.

Just to clarify, that's for Rebbeim. No girls yet but I understand that many classes buy a communal gift from the whole class, others buy a small individual gift as part of the MM and yet others give a gift voucher in addition to a MM. I've never heard of actually giving cash to female teachers.

Because female teachers live on manicure and soap vouchers and not paychecks and tips? I don't mean to sound sarcastic. It's just that I am a hard-working female teacher with a lot of expenses and experience. I therefore find this attitude extremely demeaning; lacking gratitude for caring for the klal's children. My only hope is that if I every teach your dear child then you will be able to appreciate the sleep I lose over my students...

Option, my thoughts excatly. I just posted this on the other thread about this subject:
I am a Limudei Kodesh teacher, and I think it is completely wrong to pay our male counterparts so much more for the same work. It is simply put not fair (is it even legal?) and to say that they have more training is completely ridiculous. They don't. Most Moros I know have degrees in education, most Rabbeim I know don't. As far as I am concerned, spending years learning in Yeshiva does not constitute training experience. Teaching is less about actual information and more about how it is imparted (and thus understood and retained by the students) That is what educational methodologies are about. No education classes teaches you Chumash, Gemara, math, English etc.. they teach you HOW to teach - and learning in Yeshiva in no way prepares a Rebbe for that.

The comment about the Rebbe deserving money from parents as presents (as opposed to Morahs) is insulting to any Morah We are all in this field to bring Neshamos closer to HKB"H. We all invest in our students. Most Morah's where I teach are exceptionally dedicated to their students. We love, care, and overall try to nurture each girl. We spend hours thinking about how to help each student grow and achieve. It is demeaning enough that we are being payed far less, but for that kind of attitude, from parents no less, is downright hurtful.

Optione and Apple24 - Read my post on the other thread regarding my thoughts on male and female teachers. I too am baffled as to why some parents give males more than females and think it's out of line.

Optione, you don't have to worry about teaching my DC as we are extremely appreciative parents and show our appreciation regularly. I was just explaining what happens where I live. No, females don't get less but they usually get it in the form of a voucher rather then cash. Why? I've no clue. Though I've always thought it more respectable somehow. I'll start a spin-off about that.

I have many friends that work as teachers and they are all very appreciative of these vouchers. We have vouchers that can be used in over 40 stores so you will always be able to buy something you need / want and are not restricted to one store.

realeez

Fri, Mar 02 2012, 9:57 am

spring13 wrote:

realeez wrote:

Raisin wrote:

If I am understanding correctly what someone once told me is that the concept of the melamed getting $ isn't a modern thing and probably predates having female teachers and the actual Bais Yaakov system but it wasn't specifically for Purim though - was actually Chaunkah gelt.

What does predating have to do with anything? It's not a big leap to make from "Reb X is teaching my child chumash" to "Morah Y is teaching my child chumash."

I'm with you on Chanukah gelt, btw. I was surprised at the topic of this thread. I don't have kids in school yet, but I would never have assumed that I needed to slip a check into MM.

It's not a big leap but you are talking about people parting with their hard-earned money it is Wink

. My guess is that since it is a "minhag" to give Rebbis, ppl do it do as not to be the odd man out while no one is looking to start a new trend that will cost them big bucks. Is it fair? Not really but in my teaching days I didn't know better Wink